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@BC

stripedbass: here is my 2cents.

本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛1A: you can get that information from RCMP or local police officier

2A: many victims tend to report the incident only after it is over, it may be due to many reasons, such as panic, afraid or simply don't know what to do after the shock. you certainly can suspect that they may hide something but don't our Canadian law tell us that taking illegal action based on rumours or one's suspection on something/or someone is AGAINST the law and should face the justice consequence?

3A. why do you have such question about why people is so dedicated to do something they are very interested in and enjoied for? Bottomline is: does Canadian law prohibit fishing at night at all?

Question to the Westport Paper:
if people suspect someone is doing commercial or illegal fishing, shouldn't they report to the police or local authority instead committing crime by assaulting angler they suspect? Pushing/throwing people into the water is attempted murder, don't you think so?

We fully support local people's effort to protect the natural resources only if it is put throught the lawful ways, throwing ppl into water is attempted murder so it is a severe crime, there is no execuse on that at all, and we must be very clear about that!更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
Report

Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 枫下沙龙 / 枫下钓鱼 / WestPort小镇上的记者给我来了一封Email: 迫切需要英语高手帮助回信!各位网友群策群力,从舆论战线上争取更大胜利!
    本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Hello there. I work with the Westport Paper and noticed your posted
    pamphlets in town.
    I was wondering if you could answer a few questions.

    1. In total 6 people got injured in two separate attacks. It sounds from
    your coverage these were very bad injuries. Could you tell me how and where
    the victims were treated and in what condition they are now.
    2. Why did the victims report the incident the following day? Not on the
    scene. That almost makes it look as if they victims were hiding something
    don't you think?
    3. There have been a lot of Asian-Canadian fishing in or area in the last
    few years. Why do they always fish at night, and why would anybody come from
    Toronto for a 4 hr drive only to fish here at night?
    I would greatly appreciate it if you can get back to me, possibly provide me
    with a contact phone number as well.

    Thank you
    Marco

    Also, just for me to get my facts straight, who are you? What does Better
    Canada 2007 stand for? Can you provide me with a name so I can use that in
    my story.

    Marco Smits
    Reporter/Photographer
    The Review-Mirror
    Phone: 613-273-8000
    Fax: 613-273-8001
    Email: msmits@review-mirror.com
    Web: http://www.review-mirror.com更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • 事实在发生过之后,一切就变得模糊起来。作为旁观者,提出像这位记者的问题是很正常的。也就是说要服人,还是得靠证据和逻辑。
      • 这么快就“一切就变得模糊起来“了??? 一切???好像是华裔老人挥的斧头吧
        华人都有您这水平,“一切“都不会发生,或者说,华人都有您这水平,下回“一切“还会发生;你可能在local们的高尔夫球场上被来上一杆了。
        • 看过电影罗生们没有?亲眼所见的当事人都不能把事实说得真实,更不用说是道听途说的了。还是拿出有说服力的证据吧,华文报纸的报道不能作为去说理的证据。看来你有能力回答那位记者提出的问题,那就赶快吧!
          • 警方是有说力证据的另一个重要来原,督促警方对二个案子尽快采取行动是我们迫切需要做的。
            • 你可以回答也可以不回答,因为没那么容易答。但要真得想出力的话,就去花精力尽量找当事人,作比较detail地回答。 正面回应,才是更不畏惧的表现。。当然没精力去做的话,也没人说什么的。
      • 可能本来就模糊,受害的能站出来讲讲嘛!
    • I myself am a Chinese, and I don't understand "No. 3 Why do they always fish at night, and why would anybody come from Toronto for a 4 hr drive only to fish here at night?"
      • It's easy to answer this question: Too many Chinese people here work at midnight shift, and they want to keep the same rymthm during the weekend.
        • :)))))))))))))))))))))))))
      • 有的鱼夜里吃东西活跃,不止国人,很多钓鱼迷都会在夜里钓鱼。
      • for question 3, it's quite easy to answer. Canada is a free country, people can do whatever they like as long as they obey the law. it is meaningless to guess people's motivation.
        However it's against the law to attack somebody else who is doing thing in a different way
    • 译文
      你好。我在WestPort工作,我注意到了你们在镇上散发的小册子。我想请问几个问题:
      1。 两次袭击一共有六个人受伤,据你们所述伤的很严重。能不能告诉我伤者在哪里医治,现在情况怎样?
      2。 受害者为何事故当天不报案而在第二天报案?这样做使这事听起来好像受害者在隐藏什么,你说呢?
      3。过去几年里有许多亚裔加拿大人在这一带钓鱼,他们为什么总在夜间钓鱼?为什么会有人半夜从多伦多开4个小时仅仅是为了钓鱼?
      如蒙答复,我将不胜感谢,最好能提供联系电话。

      谢谢
      马可

      另外,恕我直言-您是谁?Better Canada是什么意思?能不能提供姓名以便我在报文中引用?
      Macro Smits
      记者/摄影师
      镜报回顾
      电话:6132738000
      传真:613-273-8001
      • 如实回答:
        1)袭击情况,我们是根据有关报纸报道得到的消息,受伤人具体在哪里医治和现在的情况,我们不太清楚;
        2)当时手机坏了,脑子也懵了,没有报案,受害者有没有隐藏什么,我们也不知道;
        3)见楼上老评委帖。
        • 那不了解情况,那我们不是很被动!
          • 至少应该走访受害人获得第一手资料。
            • 实在联系不上受害人,或受害人不愿意。也可说是跟拒报纸所言。并要求记者向警方求证。
    • 此人回复代表很多当地人,颇不友好。我在广播里也听过类似言论。
      • 谈不上和谁友好,那个小镇基本没什么夜生活.就半夜钓鱼,他们自己就原谅自己了.找警察吧
        • 不好意思,话没完
          本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛此人回复代表很多当地人,颇不友好。我在广播里也听过类似言论。回复时不要被他的话题牵住,要强调追查凶手的目的。以下供参考,欢迎意见:
          第一条我没法答,希望组织者知道。
          第二条应询问当事人实话实说。比如当时人对此太吃惊,不知道如何处理。来加不久,对法律所知有限等。
          第三条比较有争议,说实话我不是钓鱼着,不太理解为何夜间钓鱼。比如是新来跟着本地人学的?抑或是夜间鱼多?抑或根本就是此人胡说,根本没有多少人夜间钓鱼(反正我听说的不多)?

          应强掉的是凶手的动机:针对亚裔。他们越是这样发问,越是说明凶手的做案带有种族性且有当地支持。什么是种族仇视(hate crime)罪?犯罪者做案动机:1)受害者属于某一种族 2)受害者并非特定的人(比如夜间钓鱼者或违法钓鱼者)。
          西方人经过多年的社会争斗,很善于处理种族问题。比如他们仇视你,但是表面上却又对你以礼相待,让你感恩带德。他们惩罚你方法是怂恿他们的小青年来收拾你,警察通常只会把他们的行为当做年轻人好闹市来处理。等你真的急了,背后的这些人就出来救场了。比如barrie的事件。
          他们越是质问谴责亚裔钓鱼者,越是说明他们在回避问题转移视线(惯用伎俩),钓鱼者有错为何不报警?为何要对无辜者动手?

          欢迎质问更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • These are very good questions, we should take it seriously.
      • Agree!
    • 此人回复代表很多当地人,颇不友好。
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛此人回复代表很多当地人,颇不友好。我在广播里也听过类似言论。回复时不要被他的话题牵住,要强调追查凶手的目的。以下供参考,欢迎意见:
      第一条我没法答,希望组织者知道。
      第二条应询问当事人实话实说。比如当时人对此太吃惊,不知道如何处理。来加不久,对法律所知有限等。
      第三条比较有争议,说实话我不是钓鱼着,不太理解为何夜间钓鱼。比如是新来跟着本地人学的?抑或是夜间鱼多?抑或根本就是此人胡说,根本没有多少人夜间钓鱼(反正我听说的不多)?

      应强掉的是凶手的动机:针对亚裔。他们越是这样发问,越是说明凶手的做案带有种族性且有当地支持。什么是种族仇视(hate crime)罪?犯罪者做案动机:1)受害者属于某一种族 2)受害者并非特定的人(比如夜间钓鱼者或违法钓鱼者)。
      西方人经过多年的社会争斗,很善于处理种族问题。比如他们仇视你,但是表面上却又对你以礼相待,让你感恩带德。他们惩罚你方法是怂恿他们的小青年来收拾你,警察通常只会把他们的行为当做年轻人好闹市来处理。等你真的急了,背后的这些人就出来救场了。比如barrie的事件。
      他们越是质问谴责亚裔钓鱼者,越是说明他们在回避问题转移视线(惯用伎俩),钓鱼者有错为何不报警?为何要对无辜者动手?

      欢迎质问更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
      • agree
    • 应该好好回答这些问题,有理有节, 才能最大程度的扩大影响,赢得人心。我相信只要我们在理,别人会支持的。
    • 有些问可能需要受害人自己或他们的代表律师回答。不可大意。 我还得再次呼吁受伤害人勇感地指控罪犯。赶紧上医院检查治疗,特别是受伤害的老人(#3950037@0)。医疗记录是人身伤害的重要证具。也是依法索赔的基础。
      • 同意
    • 我觉得应当把重点放到如何督促对第二个案子采取行动。第二个案子中的受害人能清楚辩认出凶犯及其作案凶器和车俩,警察只要把那小镇上几百号人的照片让受害人看,立马就可把人犯抓来。
    • 个人认为对这个记者的这些问题都应谨慎认真的回答,另外最后一定要索取这个记者在当地就这些问题回答所发表的文章。
    • 你没有义务回答任何问题.同时,明确告诉他,不受权他发表任何你们的通信内容.
    • 强烈谴责暴力伤害行为.但我们的同胞也应该反省一下:钓鱼是一种娱乐,不要把它变成打渔;消费不要过于节俭,多少也为当地经济做点贡献;注意保护环境,不要留下垃圾;穿着干净体面一点,不要让人误认为是游民.
    • for question 3, it's quite easy to answer. Canada is a free country, people can do whatever they like as long as they obey the law. it is meaningless to guess people's motivation.
      However it's against the law to attack somebody else who is doing things in a different way
      • 我觉的这么回答很rul. 其实生活中不是每个人都可以做任何事情,只要没违法.还的考虑到别人的感受,和礼貌.这么回答登在报上就是一个中国人的一个笑谈了.
        • 你算了吧。别人都扔你到河狸了, 还中国人笑谈
          • 紧张
    • answer to question 2, there might be many reasons that victims didn't report the incident at scene. They could be hurt too serious to do anything but save their lives first.
      reporting the incident the following day is perfectly ok. it may look strange to you but not to police. the assumption you made is quite misleading, irresponsible and unprofessional.
      • If you refering to my message, I agree with you. You have much better points.
    • 1和2真是一针见血。
    • 这些问题都是法庭上常见的问题,根本无所谓友好不友好。再说了,辩方律师责问控方证人大多是采用往死里整的态度,不友好是肯定的。法制社会,强调证据,态度好坏不是决定性的。
      • 1和2 真是抓住要害了,不好回答.如果没人站出来指正,没证据.都可以说没发生.是无理取闹
      • 看来你的水平不只是高中生嘛。
    • 你们可以选择不回复。
      • 那我可以说,当我质疑时,他们都不吭声了.
        • 随便他们说,其实你们的目的已经达到了。。。你们说得越多,上人圈套的可能就越大。不管有理没理,你们现在还不具备团队作战的能力,没有后面有力的智囊团,就先不要陷进去。(随便你们砸)
          • 我们意见相同.偷懒不想打字,刚刚跟楼主通了电话,你上面的两句话跟我说的一样
      • Need to be answered.
        • why?
    • 1) The detail information is in the hand of RCMP, and we are not in the position to release more information. 2) If somebody is waving an axe at you, are you going to stay on the scene and call police?
      3) Not just Asian-Canadain like to fish at night.. so please mind your words.

      Some people in that neighbourhood thought that it is their constitutional right to attack any Asian-Canadian that look or act suspicious. What a mentality!
      • 别闹了.白名是要受害人出来嘛,没人出来.你这都是假设.我算书.图增笑料.我都有点相信是不是藏着什么?是不是就调有用的说呀!别打击我们维权的积极.
      • 这是至今为止最好的回答。这个Email并不是想问问题,而是找茬,想转移视线。
    • 现在就说这个记者不友好有点结论下的太早。记者的工作就是挖消息啦。至于那些问题如果有好的答案不妨告诉他, 不太清楚的让他去联系华文报纸或者警察。你可以回答他,但不是义务。
    • 关于为什么中国人要钓鱼?------响应政府号召! 呵呵~~~~~~~ 钓鱼手册上有没有鼓励大家钓鱼的文字?记者同志,采访一下资源部的官员吧,为我们提供舆论支持!
    • 这篇文章让人看来非常不友善, 不回答也无所谓. 但如果回答, 有如下建议:
      这篇文章让人看来非常不友善, 不回答也无所谓. 但如果回答, 有如下建议:
      1). it relates somewhat to privacy, so i am not supposed to disclose the details. But he can consult police for more information.
      2). I don't have too much idea on why they did not report to police right away. You can also contact police for more details. but i would like to mention here is that it is obviously that they were assaulted illegally while they have done nothing illegal.
      3). I am not a fisher, therefore i don't know why they would like to drive for 4 hours to fish at night. however, i have confirmed with police and MNR that their behavious are not against the law.
      不管怎样, 没有义务为他的新闻稿提供素材. 当然, 无论你怎样提供更详细的信息, 也不要指望他会说什么好话.
    • My answer.
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Before I answer your questions, there is one point in your email I would like to straight out. I can not understand why you think “It sounds from your coverage these were very bad injuries”. The words in our letter stand for exactly themselves. As a reporter, I think you should understand them much better than me.
      Regarding your questions, I think most of them you should ask the police, the victims or the people. Although, I am not them, I’d like to answer your questions by my personal understanding.
      The letter was delivered and embowered by a group of fishing hobbies. That group was united for

      Before I answer your questions, a few things I would like to straight out. First of all, my words in this reply should not be regarded as something against me. I am just one of the people who want a better Canada. Secondly, you are not authorized to quote any of my words in this email, unless you quote every word of your email and that of my reply. Thirdly, this email address was owned by a group of Canadian people who think that the recent attack to fisheries in West Port should be stopped and we are welling to do something to stop it. The group was organized for September 31st event. After then, this email address will only be used to receive clue reporting mentioned in the letter. Every member in the group has the access to this email address. So, you may get more feed back in the future. Or if you still think that’s not enough, I can post your questions on some web sites and I am sure your will get a lot of feedback by that way.

      As one of the memebr of this group, I do not have the right and responsibility to answer your questions for the group. You can ask your questions to police, the victims or other people to get more solid answers to your questions. (I really think a report should do things that way) However, as most of your questions I can answer based on my personal experience and common sense, I would like to answer some of them disregarding who you are and what you want.

      1. First of all you should ask the police where and how the victims were injured.
      2. You asked why the victims reported the incident the following day. I think it is quit understandable. What you would you do if you were the victim? Leave the scene or drive around to find a police station in the dark while you were injured and the people threat you still around. From your email sounds you think “that almost makes it look as if they victims were hiding something”. So, I suggest you talk your idea out to the police. Seems they think it was acceptable.
      3. I really think you should ask the victims or the people on site, cause I never gone there during night. From my respective, certainly there are some reasons for them doing it.
      4. The words ”In total 6 people got injured in two separate attacks” stand for exactly themselves. As a reporter, I think you should understand them much better than me. The same, the words “better Canada” stand for exactly themselves.更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
      • Sorry, cut off the first two paragraphs.
    • 显然这个记者不友好, 不对凶手进行谴责却无端猜测质疑 -- 1. 质疑伤势 2. 暗示victim非法藏鱼 3. 单说a lot of *Asian-Canadian*, 而且*always* fish at night.
      回答不好就不要回答 -- It's under police investigation. 如果回答了, 要求他publish之前经过你们review.
    • 又有一封信:from Pat Molson <pat_molson@hotmail.com>, Where the 3 poaching?
      • 这种语气,这个人有没有打人的嫌疑?或者知道打人的事情? 我要把这封信转发给省警。
    • 嘿嘿,
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Hello there. I work with the Westport Paper and noticed your posted
      pamphlets in town.
      I was wondering if you could answer a few questions.

      1. In total 6 people got injured in two separate attacks. It sounds from
      your coverage these were very bad injuries. Could you tell me how and where
      the victims were treated and in what condition they are now.

      Dear Marco, I heard before coming to Canada that people here even regard
      walking too close to a stranger as inappropriate. We too interpret any unwanted
      verbal and bodily assault as serious among civilized people. Since you are
      a journalist, I am not, I suggest you find these out yourself, otherwise people
      would say that I am lying.

      2. Why did the victims report the incident the following day? Not on the
      scene. That almost makes it look as if they victims were hiding something
      don't you think?
      No I don't think so, if you were kicked into the river or about to have your
      head chopped off, will you dial 911 or run away for good first ? We are all very
      peaceful people and it's very uncommon for us to get cornered by barbaric
      people like that, it's not hard to imagine that they got too scared to realize
      that they shall dial 911 (not mentioning if they still have a cell phone to dial
      after being pushed into the water). I don't understand why they still reported to
      the police if they have anything to hide, wouldn't it be better to not to report at all ?

      3. There have been a lot of Asian-Canadian fishing in or area in the last
      few years. Why do they always fish at night, and why would anybody come from
      Toronto for a 4 hr drive only to fish here at night?
      I would greatly appreciate it if you can get back to me, possibly provide me
      with a contact phone number as well.

      Is fishing during the night illegal ? If you know some people's ancestors took months to come over from the other side of Atlantic ocean, ancestors of our descendants took a day to come over from the other side of Pacific ocean, you wouldn't have asked this question. I guess you wouldn't ask me why any local people would take the same amount of time to come to toronto either.

      Thank you
      Marco

      Also, just for me to get my facts straight, who are you? What does Better
      Canada 2007 stand for? Can you provide me with a name so I can use that in
      my story.

      "Better Canada 2007", Can't be simpler: We think this is bad! If those people could do it in a legal way rather than waiving their axes and pushing anglers into the river , if they could report to the police and let the police handle it, we regard it a better Canada.

      I am just an angler who hasn't been pushed into the water or threatened with an ax yet, I can't disclose more information for now. If some people can threat people with an ax and push them into water, they sure are capable of any crazy things, like tracking me down and killing me, from a report by Toronto sun, I know this possibility is real. Unless we can both go to the public and argue over this issue like civilized people, I don't want to put me in any danger unnecessarily !


      Marco Smits
      Reporter/Photographer
      The Review-Mirror
      Phone: 613-273-8000
      Fax: 613-273-8001
      Email: msmits@review-mirror.com
      Web: http://www.review-mirror.com更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
      • Man, good job!
      • 第二问的答,增加内容
        Similar question can be asked: Why hadn't the local people who felt exotic anglers were fishing illegally reported to the police ? Why did some of them resorted to do it illegally like pushing anglers into the water and threatening them with weapons and dogs in the dark rather than asking police for help? That for sure make it looked like they were hiding something, don't you think?
      • Good. 我喜欢这个回答。
        • Btw, why not ask the reporter..what is the reason for those westport fellow call the police right away if there are illegal fishing there right away??
        • Why wait for so long until now the injuries incident boardcast to the whole world then all of sudden have something illegal fishing with a truck?? is it they just want to find an excuse..
      • Waving, not Waiving
        一气写下来没看,不少错误
      • excellent job. man. although I don't support to reply, your job is really impressive to me. Thanks.
    • LZ,对于前两个问题我个人觉得你应该对这位记者说你不可以代表受害者回复他。
      因为这些属于法律程序的事(因为你不是当事人),万一讲错了,这个记者可能会利用你所说的作为证据,写个文章出来,导致影响日后对惩治逞凶者的判断。还有可能你也并不知道受害者受伤的程度有多大,你是否亲眼看到,另外他们有没去医院检查和有无医院正规的验伤报告书。

      另外更重要的是这个记者怀疑受害者是否隐瞒了什么,而不在当地立即报警,甚至第二天他们都没去报案(那个记者提到the following day)。我觉得最好的回答方式是让那个记者去OPP报案中心查询有关这两起事件的报案资料,对受害人做一个彻底的访问。第三个问题相对好回答很多,可以直接告诉他,KINSTON是一个风景优美,又很出名的钓鱼热点,所以很多人不惜开车4个小时去那里钓鱼,为什么在夜里,你可以说钓鱼爱好者都知道,夜晚对钓鱼来说是一个很好的时间段,又不会烈日当空,鱼相对容易上钩。还有白天很多人要上班,办事,晚上才有时间出来钓鱼。

      以上是我个人的建议,仅供参考。
    • 还是要攻心,以夷制夷,请私家侦探如何?
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛渔民四处挨打,过街鼠冒死坐等OPP到现场太危险,四处还击力量分散,只能集中理顺一个镇子,一个镇子搞定了,其他的镇子就可以效仿。

      1。只要当事人名,没有对错。
      现在嚗光度不对等。被扔下水的,发传单的,地方媒体记者真名实姓,扔人的人无名,他们也许是在干好事,以他们的能力说不定还会有人雇他们保护渔民呢. 做了好事不留名,不但像我这个躲在屏幕后面发帖子的家伙一样是懦夫,而且会让人很自然地用镇名代替,镇子出名了也没什么不好的,。

      2。趣味人名搜索。
      一千块全名,五百LASTNAME,五十买个字母。一个字母就挣一顿饭钱,又不用负全部责任,小镇居民何乐而不为?
      镇子的各阶层分析有必要搞一搞. 七百个人七百个利益,想守住一个秘密是很难的. 登门拜访当面说不方便是吧? 渔民万圣节发糖的时候方便吗? 赞助小学校HOCKEY的队服时方便吗? 路边食品店进便宜货的时候方便吗?

      3.INTERNET上也可以钓鱼.
      在LOCAL FORUM上骂骂渔民,说不定就能交几个好汉. 至少交谈的时候口音小点.

      4. 以夷制夷.
      大报记者能把NIP****挖出来, LOCAL 侦探挖人名不难,HOW MUCH? GOOGLE PLS.

      5. 如何回应地方媒体记者.
      感谢他关注,请他提供那6个人的真实姓名,并请他告诉他的观众"五十一个字母,五百LASTNAME,一千FULLNAME". THAT'S IT.更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • 感觉很多人提出了非常好的建议,多数人认为,不理这个记者的建议更省力气,因为这个邮件地址是为了举报而设立的,非举报信件没有义务回复。 让他们自己去别的地方收集资料去吧。而且对于这些问题的回答,不能保证这个记者不断章取意。
      • 不正面回答是对的. 但也可以通过他来传递信息. "五十买个字母,五百买LASTNAME", 让那个镇子上的人内斗.
    • stripedbass: here is my 2cents.
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛1A: you can get that information from RCMP or local police officier

      2A: many victims tend to report the incident only after it is over, it may be due to many reasons, such as panic, afraid or simply don't know what to do after the shock. you certainly can suspect that they may hide something but don't our Canadian law tell us that taking illegal action based on rumours or one's suspection on something/or someone is AGAINST the law and should face the justice consequence?

      3A. why do you have such question about why people is so dedicated to do something they are very interested in and enjoied for? Bottomline is: does Canadian law prohibit fishing at night at all?

      Question to the Westport Paper:
      if people suspect someone is doing commercial or illegal fishing, shouldn't they report to the police or local authority instead committing crime by assaulting angler they suspect? Pushing/throwing people into the water is attempted murder, don't you think so?

      We fully support local people's effort to protect the natural resources only if it is put throught the lawful ways, throwing ppl into water is attempted murder so it is a severe crime, there is no execuse on that at all, and we must be very clear about that!更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • i think you need to get serious about considering replying to the auther of this report who is the same guy sent you the email.
      ."The Review-Mirror has tried to reach the group responsible for the pamphlets distributed in Westport by contacting the email address provided, but no one responded."
      A Google search for BetterCanada2007, the name associated with the provided contact information on the pamphlet returned only one result, posted on an internet blog Sept. 29."


      see details in the link.