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CAS 对孩子一生造成伤害可能大于父母暂时体罚。这link 说:在安省 CAS care 下,90 个孩子在2007死亡。 BC 的统计说CAS care 下,只有24%的孩子能有幸高中毕业,却有高达36%孩子最后进入惩教系统。可怜忧郁而去的妈妈和可怜的孩子。


bjre View Member Profile Feb 28 2009, 04:43 AM Post #1 Group: Members Posts: 277 Joined: 8-February 09 Member No.: 4680


CAS is more harmful to children than physical discipline by parents, 90 kids die in care of CAS


Physical punishment is a popular method widely used by parents for thousands of years everywhere in the world. Some of the people cite the disadvantage of it. So the study comes. Politicians find the topic can bring them vote, Crown find it can bring more easy cases to justice system. CAS (Children’s care) find it can bring them a industry level income. So the legislation comes after media wide reported a few cases to grant CAS to watch people and search for case. Now there are nearly 30,000 kids are in care by CAS in Ontario, one out of 100 kids. This brings CAS more than $1.2 billion a year, that is $100 from everybody every year through tax. Many kids are separated from their parents by CAS. Many families were run out of their money during the court process, many families were destroyed, may kids become without parents or with single parent.


A recent report shows 90 kids were die in the care of CAS in Ontario. The death rate is one out of every 300 kids die yearly in care of CAS include high rate of suicide, homicide, and accidental death.


http://www.thestar.com/article/591523


A report from BC shows kids in care of CAS has only 24% can graduate from high school, while 36% end up in correction system.


http://www.lawsociety.bc.ca/publications_f...blic-forum.html


From the statistics, we can see it is very clear CAS does not make child grow well. Why children are taken into care by CAS, it is very often because parents want to physical discipline kids. Parents were educating kids. Let’s suppose the physical discipline is not good, what can be the solution, ask help from CAS? If kids get a small wound from discipline, they will get a lifetime great hurt from CAS.


Is the physical discipline real evil? There are studies on that: “Nonabusive Physical Punishment and Child Behavior among African-American Children: A Systematic Review”


http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender...mp;blobtype=pdf


“UC Berkeley study finds no lasting harm among adolescents from moderate spanking earlier in childhood”


http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/release...8/24_spank.html


However these serious studies were strongly argued by others who can take money from the industry such as CAS or who can get benefit from that or who did not make serious study based on real statistics. Actually there are many such studies in 1970s. However, we cannot find most of them from internet because the internet is not popular at that time.


Inadequate use of physical punishment is not correct and may lead to harm, however, this method should not be ban because of a few real abuse cases. Just like when we heard there are traffic accident on the road, shall we ban all the express way, all the highway and all the road, or shall we ban all the cars, airplanes? We know electricity can be dangerous to people, shall we ban it? So the correct manor is study how to use physical discipline and in which case it is harmful and educate parents instead of bully on them and use punishment to parents first.


Parents do physical discipline is with their best hope to children, with love, and with responsibility, while CAS does their business with a standard procedure like robot with no love, no consideration of children’s well being, and children’s future.


The truth is CAS is the real evil to children, not the physical discipline.

Report

Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 枫下茶话 / 社会 / CAS 对孩子一生造成伤害可能大于父母暂时体罚。这link 说:在安省 CAS care 下,90 个孩子在2007死亡。 BC 的统计说CAS care 下,只有24%的孩子能有幸高中毕业,却有高达36%孩子最后进入惩教系统。可怜忧郁而去的妈妈和可怜的孩子。

    bjre View Member Profile Feb 28 2009, 04:43 AM Post #1 Group: Members Posts: 277 Joined: 8-February 09 Member No.: 4680


    CAS is more harmful to children than physical discipline by parents, 90 kids die in care of CAS


    Physical punishment is a popular method widely used by parents for thousands of years everywhere in the world. Some of the people cite the disadvantage of it. So the study comes. Politicians find the topic can bring them vote, Crown find it can bring more easy cases to justice system. CAS (Children’s care) find it can bring them a industry level income. So the legislation comes after media wide reported a few cases to grant CAS to watch people and search for case. Now there are nearly 30,000 kids are in care by CAS in Ontario, one out of 100 kids. This brings CAS more than $1.2 billion a year, that is $100 from everybody every year through tax. Many kids are separated from their parents by CAS. Many families were run out of their money during the court process, many families were destroyed, may kids become without parents or with single parent.


    A recent report shows 90 kids were die in the care of CAS in Ontario. The death rate is one out of every 300 kids die yearly in care of CAS include high rate of suicide, homicide, and accidental death.


    http://www.thestar.com/article/591523


    A report from BC shows kids in care of CAS has only 24% can graduate from high school, while 36% end up in correction system.


    http://www.lawsociety.bc.ca/publications_f...blic-forum.html


    From the statistics, we can see it is very clear CAS does not make child grow well. Why children are taken into care by CAS, it is very often because parents want to physical discipline kids. Parents were educating kids. Let’s suppose the physical discipline is not good, what can be the solution, ask help from CAS? If kids get a small wound from discipline, they will get a lifetime great hurt from CAS.


    Is the physical discipline real evil? There are studies on that: “Nonabusive Physical Punishment and Child Behavior among African-American Children: A Systematic Review”


    http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender...mp;blobtype=pdf


    “UC Berkeley study finds no lasting harm among adolescents from moderate spanking earlier in childhood”


    http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/release...8/24_spank.html


    However these serious studies were strongly argued by others who can take money from the industry such as CAS or who can get benefit from that or who did not make serious study based on real statistics. Actually there are many such studies in 1970s. However, we cannot find most of them from internet because the internet is not popular at that time.


    Inadequate use of physical punishment is not correct and may lead to harm, however, this method should not be ban because of a few real abuse cases. Just like when we heard there are traffic accident on the road, shall we ban all the express way, all the highway and all the road, or shall we ban all the cars, airplanes? We know electricity can be dangerous to people, shall we ban it? So the correct manor is study how to use physical discipline and in which case it is harmful and educate parents instead of bully on them and use punishment to parents first.


    Parents do physical discipline is with their best hope to children, with love, and with responsibility, while CAS does their business with a standard procedure like robot with no love, no consideration of children’s well being, and children’s future.


    The truth is CAS is the real evil to children, not the physical discipline.

    • CAS是一个毒瘤
      • 想起卓别林的那个小电影。
    • CAS的严重渎职!!!!! 强烈谴责!!!!!!
    • I agree the the mandateof CAS - "Our legal mandate is to protect children from harm." but if it is not doing its job, we should complain to our government.
      • 有些场合, 就成了他们的借口, 不然他们就没工作了.
        • I agree they may not be perfect and they may need more control but the point I want to make is that if you think they are not right,we should complain to our government and to improve their operation.
          CAS has a good reason to exist, i.e. to protect our children.

          Although, in this particular case, I may not agree with you that they are wrong. But the number that thestar.com quoted was so distressing and it is worth for an investigation; especially, they may want to study the impact to the parents and the children's family as well.

          I already email to our representatives in Toronto and Ontario governments.
    • support.试想孩子被送回国由祖父母抚养在rolia就要遭口诛笔伐了,把孩子从父母身边带走交给陌生人,会给孩子一生带来多大的影响,比偶尔父母打几次的影响大多了。不客气的说,CAS在不停地制造问题少年,抑郁症患者和下一代的不合格父母。
    • 换个角度看,CAS 制度的存在可以警吓家长,从而使社会在整体上减少了父母体罚孩子的情况。当然,CAS 本身有很多重大缺陷,不能不查。
      • ding!!!!如果沉默,CAS对这个事件或许想都不会想一下。
      • 那换个角度看,能不能说“偷东西砍手刑”和“沉猪笼”可以大大减少犯罪和净化社会道德?过犹则不及。
        • CAS 制度不是为了惩罚,而是通过这个部门的存在教育家长不要体罚孩子。当然,CAS 本身的问题也不许检讨。
          • 即使名义上是教育家长不要体罚孩子,他们考虑代价了吗?这个代价包括一些人的生命和许多孩子的未来人生。
      • 按照这个逻辑那个绑架小偷的歹徒也成了防患于未然,CAS的作用应该是保护,而非威慑。这件事情CAS本身的做法未必有错,但是他们的名声确实不好,真相如何,迟早会有人跟进的。但是公款私用已是不争的事实。
        • "绑架小偷的歹徒" 谁是歹徒啊?
          • 绑架歹徒的华人老板,哈哈。笔误
      • 没戏。最缺乏的就是脚踏实地的整理有分量的资料+理性分析表达。你看谈天说地政治经济等几个版块上很多有潜在价值的意见观点,由于在表达上出现的一些倾向:情绪化、群众运动化、强烈主观化,口号化
        而且缺乏对数据实例的客观分析,结果失去了应有的影响力度,很是可惜。即使造成了影响,也很可能副作用更强。

        看看新闻上的例子,perez hilton用一切机会推进同性恋婚姻,但他对carrie prejean的回答表现,尤其是事后的表现,对同性恋的形象和他所要推进反而造成了伤害。

        还有枪杀堕胎医生,反堕胎组织就担心这种行为会危害他们的形象,因为他们认为每个生命,无论是胎儿还是医生的,都是重要的,这样的非情绪化的态度才能帮助他们争取更多人的支持,达到目的。

        恰当的表达方式和表现手法太重要了,否则就没机会发表,发表了也没影响力。二战的集中营中,犹太人、苏联战俘、以及中国人和朝鲜人在日本731的遭遇大家都知道,同样是表现这些受害者的苦难历程,介绍犹太人的作品,无论是从表现手法上还是对他人和后代的感染力上看,都高于其他的。严肃又不失人性,近距离又不是哭哭啼啼、写实又不是血腥恐怖,反思又不是宣传仇恨,这就是水平差距。

        好心办坏事是最让人惋惜的,但偏偏又是经常发生的,所以你我作为个人,能做的就是自己多努力多练习,提高自己的水平,总有一天你的声音会被更多的人听到,引起更多的人思考。
    • 这些数据基本证明不了什么。想要证明CAS弊大于利,需要证明如果没有CAS,会有更少的小孩死于非命,更多的孩子能高中毕业。
      • 这个无解吧。
        • 可以100%肯定的是一定会有更多的小孩受虐待!!!这是加拿大这种社会不可以接受的, 这也是CAS产生的原因
          • but it doesn't mean CAS cannot do better. CAS may be doing its job but if we think it can do better, then we should raise our concerns to our government.
    • “天下无不是的父母”不是真理。未成年儿童没有能力保护自己,一定要有这么一个组织的,cas倒了会有别的组织做这件事。也许应该给cas的权利加以更多的限制。
      • 应该为不同族裔提供不同的组织,让父母有选择余地。CAS可缩减为监督机构。
    • 最大的问题是这个CAS权力太大, 不需要法庭, 不需要警察, 不需要父母同意, 它就可以把小孩夺走. 况且它夺走孩子有经济上的利益. 这在讲人权的国家是非常出格, 不可想象的.
      • CAS和父母是事件中的两方,如果需要父母的同意,那CAS基本不可能工作。 警察对这事不可能判定对错。COURT后来应该是INVOLVED。
    • 如果随便有人到个人家里把小孩带走, 那叫kidnap. 但CAS就可以这样做. 它仅仅是一个私人机构, 凭什么可以这样呢?
      • 因为你对小孩子存在的(如有先例 - 甚至于潜在的)伤害
        • 一个私人机构没有权力来作这个决定, 况且它有经济上的利益关系. BTW, 不要用"你"这种字眼.
      • CAS is empowered by our legislation.
        • exactly why we need change the legislation, because of conflict of interest and lack of regulatory mechanism.
          • contact your MPP
      • 因为人民枪支被禁止了。
    • 上周torontostar一个新闻,一个小女孩身上有纳粹的图案,说希特勒good but bad,错在杀人。黑人和中国人都应该回到他们来的地方,最后cas把她和她哥哥都带走了。如果没有cas这两个小孩长大了什么样子?类似的组织是必须要存在的。父母虐待甚至打死小事见过看过的太多了。
      • CAS 是很过分,就一个图案而已,法轮功也有那种图案。小孩都喜欢找些古怪Sticker,Holloween时候扮得更吓人。言论自由居然没有保障,太可怕了。小孩一胡说就是“父母虐待小孩”。
        • 她身上的图案是permanent mark,我理解是tatoo. 她母亲不承认教她这个,他父亲说他有权力教自己孩子。图案是小事,这小女孩说希特勒做的是对的,只是不应该杀人。又说不能杀minority黑人和中国人,但是应该把他们遣送回去,这是种族歧视言论,不能容忍的。
          • 那应该抓孩子父母,抓孩子做甚?
        • 不知道你了解整个新闻了没有。新闻说孩子的父亲有个网站公开鼓吹白人至上,有色人种是威胁,要杀。另外,孩子的母亲对此的解释是,孩子是孩子,孩子不见得接受父母的观念,孩子长大会有自己的见解。所以孩子父亲的言论对孩子没有影响。而且父亲不跟孩子住在一起。
        • 老师第一天把图案洗了,告诉孩子那个图案公认的含义。孩子的妈妈马上又画上去。是妈妈画的,不是孩子。
          • 那就抱警抓她妈,抓小孩干吗?
            • 没有人抓小孩。 是认为小孩不应该接受种族主义的教育,这相当于残害心理健康。就按你的说法吧(虽然很无厘头),把父母抓走,小孩就放在家里自生自灭? 不还是要有人TAKE CARE吗? 找亲戚朋友带养,不也有个办手续的时间?
              • 种族主义的教育残害心理健康是您的道德观念,医学知识还是法律,如果是法律那么应该有适当的标准。难道CAS的标准和警方不一样?他父母从事非法活动警方应该有所行动才是,怎么CAS先跳出来?
                • 那是CAS的认定。你可以反对啊。另外孩子的妈妈好像也认识到了,使劲否定她教了孩子这些。
                  1 常识:警方是LAW ENFORMCEMENT,并不判定犯罪与否。判罪是COURT。警方认为有犯罪嫌疑,有足够证据就可以抓人。但是他们的证据是不是够,嫌疑人能不能定罪,都是COURT后来才决定的。
                  2 类似的,CAS“先跳出来”是符合Child and Family Services Act 法律的程序。双方有异议,不是正在上法庭吗?这也是法律程序。
                  3 如果你对以上法律程序有异议,可以采取合法的行动,推动法律的改变 。
              • 亲戚朋友带养? 是您的幻觉吧?CAS办这样的手续了吗?"没有抓小孩"?难道是小孩自己愿意去的?CAS非常危险。这次可以说父母是纳粹,下次说父母是共党,很快就轮到中国人了。
                • 你了解CAS的运作吗?CAS KINSHIP program管这个事。
    • 90 kids * 300 =27000 他们搞了这么多孩子!发大财了。中国孩子关进去了还能继续学中文,学钢琴,练台拳道吗?指定是废了。政府把这么重要的事承包给一家公司的做法太粗暴了,我要就这事给保守党写信。
      • email address, I believe it is Ontario government rather than federal although I may be wrong'
        • 原来是自由党,算了吧,没指望了。
          • no, if everyone from Rolia email their MPP, they would listen. We are in a deomcratic country, they want your vote, no matter what party they are! Your vote is very important!
            • yeah, never make any assumption and give up easily
              • a lot of my bosses called me noisy Chinese. but if you don't speak up, then you give up your chance.
                I may not agree with a lot of you about CAS but it is up to us tell our representative what we think. I email my 2 cents worth opinion, how about yours?
            • 我没有选这个MPP,将来也没打算选他,是否我可以trick他一下?
              • TRICK议员是你的权力,绝对不犯法;正如他也TRICK你一样不犯法。
    • 我不否认CAS存在的积极性,只是他们在完成任务的同时,应该更加人性化。不用说人,哪怕是动物,要想在母亲抚育期内抢走幼子,对母亲的打击是非常大的,何况,这是一位已经是有产后忧郁症的母亲呢?
      • 我觉得关键问题是CAS 是一家赢利机构, 他在所谓的评估中很难做到公平,
      • 是的,就是这个理。
    • 这些事例更加证明了人性的贪婪和丑恶。我们可能只注意到了限制政府的权力,而忽略了其他形式的权力机构。很多组织的建立都是出于好的出发点--就是黑手党最初也只是一些人组织起来保护自己和家人--但是最终都会变质。所以一定要建立监督机构,延缓变质的期限直到推倒重建。
    • 是呀,最近发生的悲剧我们看到了一个疼爱孩子的母亲就这样走了,另外一方面这个事件中的孩子,他们出于"孩子的安全考虑"隔离开母子,家庭,可是对于孩子自己,他们心灵的创伤有多大,谁又真正的去考虑过? 这个事件中都是失败者...没有赢家,或许唯一自认的winner就是cas
      • http://ogov.newswire.ca/ontario/GONE/2008/06/04/c8361.html?lmatch=&lang=_e.html CAS involvement did not appear to be a factor in the majority of the deaths.