forgot to include the link -hkchan(*) @BC省华人论坛:BC省枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of BC

枫下茶话 / 社会 / I don't want people to believe everything that was said on web. And the last thing I don't want to see is if someone believe CAS is an evil organizatin and turn down every assistance from CAS which may be their last hope. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-11 {1776} (#5335027@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛I would not hestiate to support anyone who can show me real evidence and solid information that CAS has wrong doing. However, if it is just a rumor or imcompleted truth, then I feel it is everyone's responsiblity to stand up against it to avoid another disaster.

A lof discussion is around how many kids were died under CAS control and it sounds very distressing. May I used an example to illustrate what can go wrong if we just look at the number without understanding the true meaning. If I tell you certain medical units in a hospital has mortality rate which can be 200 times higher than general population. You may jump up and blame these medical units as a killing machine. But if I tell you one of these unit is intensive care unit and most patients that go to ICU are critically ill, then I wonder if you would still consider ICU a killing machine and don't bring your beloved one to ICU when he / she is critically ill.

I don't know if CAS is doing at its best capacity or if there is any improvement within the organization. This is why I email my MPP or Minister of Children to investigate. I sincerely wish everyone do that same thing.

But again, I would like everyone to think if tomorrow a kid is killed because the parents read our discussion about CAS and do not seek assistance from CAS. Can those who post negative review about CAS (and without try to confirm the source) sleep well. I can't sleep well if I am not doing my best to stop it happen again!

And this is why I spend so much effort to defend CAS, not because I work for CAS or I love CAS.

You can go on and still post message to tell people that CAS is an evil organization who killed the poor mother and there would be people who believe you; the beginning of another disaster!更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

你断断句好不好，念个标题差点背过气去。 -coolmao(酷猫*Vorian); 2009-6-11 (#5335030@0)

sorry for my poor English but I don't know how to write in Chinese. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-11 (#5335046@0)

I was just kidding. nothing to do with your English. keep on "adding water" -coolmao(酷猫*Vorian); 2009-6-11 (#5335067@0)
no, your english is fine -lindros88(枫叶第一); 2009-6-12 (#5336626@0)

要看ELIGIBILITY RATING,如果是EXTREMELY SEVERE,不可以拒绝服务,如果是MODERATELY SEVERE可以拒绝服务。 -ontariocas(CAS); 2009-6-11 (#5335384@0)

The author may be able to "turn down" an "assistance" from CAS but I have yet to see one other case where that "assistance" can be "turned down". To all other people, the "assistance" is always imposed on a family. -buug(Crouching Tiger); 2009-6-11 {769} (#5335281@0)
You were accurate in eqating the CAS to a medical unit, even an intensive care unit, when analyzing the mortality rate among the children in the care of the CAS. However, you neglected to mention that most children were far from being ill either physically or mentally, most were pretty healthy when taken in. Do not forget that, given the responsibilities of the CAS, the presumed problems in all CAS's cases are those of the parents, not children. The assertions in your analysis failed to recognize the traumatic impact on a child being taken away from his or her own parents and the familiar living surroundings. This impact needs to be fully considered by the CAS before its action. Otherwise, the mortality parallel to a medical unit will not change for better.

"most were pretty healthy when taken in" Do you mind to share your source of information and especially real number (or percentage) to support your assumption? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-11 (#5335669@0)
There is only 1 point that I want to illustrate in my message; which is don't jump to conclusion if we don't have solid evidence. Our comments may danger children who need help from CAS. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-11 (#5335686@0)

Isn't 90+ mortalities solid enough evidence? How many more are needed? Children must be protected from all forms of harms. Clearly in this particular case we are discussing, the child was not harmed by being taken to see the doctors. -buug(Crouching Tiger); 2009-6-11 (#5335839@0)

“The involvement of a Children's Aid Society did not appear to be a factor in the majority of child deaths. In cases where there was involvement by a Children's Aid Society, most deaths could not have been foreseen or prevented by the agency.” -hkchan(*); 2009-6-11 (#5335890@0)

Those children did die in the custody of the CAS. -buug(Crouching Tiger); 2009-6-11 {321} (#5335968@0)
When taking a child from his/her parents, the CAS also takes over the caring responsibilities as a parent. When a chilld dies, can a parent ever say with clear conscience that I am not involved in the death of my child so I am ok? There must be transparency and accountability in matters as serious as a child's welfare.

Can you please share your shource of information that the 91 children who died, were in the custody of CAS. "The involvement of a Children's Aid Society did not appear to be a factor in the majority of child deaths" -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 {1887} (#5336310@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛If a boy was abused by his father and injected with high level of drug. The boy was sent to emergency and doctor called CAS. The boy was then in the custody of CAS but subsequently died because of drug over does. Is that CAS responsibility? Or to prove my point. What if the mother already know the problem that the father was drug addict and have mental problem. But she read some comments about how evil organization is and killed 91 children in 2007. She was afraid that her boy would be one of the CAS victims because she was sick and couldn't take care the boy herslef. She didn't call CAS and the boy was died. Do you still believe it was CAS responsibility if this was a real case.

I believe both of us love children, some of the children abuse stories were just beyond our imagination. Not even animal would do such thing to their baby. I am a volunteer myself and know quite a few social workers who told me terrible stories. There is a solid reason to have organization like CAS. It has great power because time is critical in term of child abuse but CAS does not work without supervision. It is supervised by our government and we have committes constantly review children's death. And if any parents who have problem with CAS can take CAS to court. Canada has a relatively matured and independent legal system that parents can use to against CAS.

But again, if everything fails, we can turn to our politicans. In this case, it is our MPP. I wrote to my MPP couple years ago about the death of a child who was in custody of CAS. If we can make enough noise with solid evidence, the politicans would listen.

If CAS is such evil organization, do you think the opposition party and main stream media would already jump out to claim the credits?

Please share with me your source of information if you think it is solid enough to send it to MPP.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

forgot to include the link -hkchan(*); 2009-6-11 {124} (#5335908@0)
CAS is directly supervisied by our government and any parents who do not agree with CAS can challenge its decision at court.
http://ogov.newswire.ca/ontario/GONE/2008/06/04/c8361.html?lmatch=&lang=_e.html

1. Unsafe sleeping environments, 2. Sleeping positions, 3. Bathtub safety and 4. Adolescent suicide are the common themes for the prevention of similar deaths emerged. CAS involvement is not on the list. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5336321@0)
You are suggesting everything is ok because an individual can challenge an organization in a position of power. Is it fair? It's simply a irresponsible tactic in deflecting criticism. -buug(Crouching Tiger); 2009-6-12 (#5337969@0)

Labelling C.A.S. as evil might be a stretch -lindros88(枫叶第一); 2009-6-12 {1650} (#5336622@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Labelling C.A.S. as evil might be a stretch but they are certainly given way too much power by our government as far as im concerned. I'd like to see our police has the authority to intervene in extreme situations such as this mississauga woman's case where her death would have been avoided had the toddler not been 'kidnapped' away. Unfortunately as of now CAS is untouchable. They can come in and snatch your child away because you "seem" unfit for raising him/her. Worse yet the child thats been kidnapped might not ever see his mother again. How ironic when considering the goal of CAS is to work with familes for eventual re-unification? ?

Abuse of power aside, I also think the CAS's internal system is severely flawed. I have read the government indeed did an audit (long time coming may I add) on CAS and found that their funding doubled to over 1 billion CAD in a span of 5 yrs while the caseload only moderately increased. It also reported that the staffers of CAS were driving luxury cars bought with taxpayer' money and were entitled to free vacations in caribbean. There were other unnecessary spendings that had the word 'abuse' written all over. Since then our government hasn't done much regarding the mentioned power & spending abuse' issues other than continuing pumping more money into CAS funding pool so big shots in that organization can continue enjoying luxurious lives at the expense of taxpayer like Loveblue's. Granted, CAS agencies in general, without question, have benefited many neediest children but until the corruption within this organization is eradicated I will continue to be critical of them.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

从时间上看，她自杀的时候，孩子已经回到家一个月了。如果确实如此的话，拿走孩子导致自杀一说值得商榷。 -kittywhy(kittywhy); 2009-6-12 (#5336671@0)

据说此女士自杀前几天还在求大家帮忙把孩子要回，还是我看错了？不管怎样CAS强制性拿走孩子(Arthur?)是导致那女士精神崩溃的主要原因 - 所以我认为她的死亡CAS必须负责任 -lindros88(枫叶第一); 2009-6-12 (#5337419@0)

o 妈妈的原话是:“这一个月来儿子的病越来越重，就像我和心理医生所说，孩子有我带着，没人治疗他，只有交道CAS，才会有人管，但是昨天那篇CAS每年死80个孩子的贴子导致了我精神崩毁” Page Link -lok(lok); 6.10 23:09 (#5333030@0) Reply -0000000(Oops); 2009-6-12 (#5337429@0)

Thank you very much - "但是昨天那篇CAS每年死80个孩子的贴子导致了我精神崩毁". This is why I started this discussion! -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 {205} (#5337442@0)
If anyone has any professional proof and solid evidence that CAS has any wrong doing, I don't mind to redirect it to Minister of Children and MInister of Health. But so far, all I read were speculations.
CAS每年死80个孩子是你们主流语言先报道的，中文不过是做了翻译的工作。BTW，翻译的时候还少了11条孩子的性命。 -oldyou(老油); 2009-6-12 (#5337453@0)

Can you please give me where 主流语言先报道 is from. I need a link or something. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5337728@0)

He's right. Here are the articles http://www.thestar.com/article/592079 http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/article/591523 -lindros88(枫叶第一); 2009-6-12 {310} (#5337819@0)
I quote "The 90 deaths in 2007 are recorded as part of the chief coroner's annual Pediatric Death Review Committee report released last June. They include children and youths in foster care, whose families had open files with a children's aid society or had died within a year of their files being closed."

"Ninety children known to Ontario's child welfare system died in 2007" - this does not imply the children who were died, were in CAS custody! As a matter of fact, in a government report -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 {247} (#5337868@0)
“The involvement of a Children's Aid Society did not appear to be a factor in the majority of child deaths. In cases where there was involvement by a Children's Aid Society, most deaths could not have been foreseen or prevented by the agency.”

Is that CAS casuing her mental breakdown? or some comments that she read from Web, suggesting 80 children were died under CAS, let to her mental breakdown? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 {69} (#5337432@0)
Again, if you have professional proof, please bring it to her family!
不是CAS导致她精神崩溃。 -0000000(Oops); 2009-6-12 (#5337433@0)
今天披露的细节比这要令人发指得多：想要孩子回家，必须让母亲离开，如果母亲回来，不仅小的，连大的都会被一起带走。重回旧处，睹物思情，那是压断她生命欲望的最后一根道草。 -oldyou(老油); 2009-6-12 (#5337434@0)

Where did you read it? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5337448@0)

5337045@0 -oldyou(老油); 2009-6-12 (#5337454@0)

I read the whole article on the newspaper and I couldn't find "想要孩子回家，必须让母亲离开，如果母亲回来，不仅小的，连大的都会被一起带走" Can you please tell me the page #. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5337755@0)

你没有看懂，没有说一定要母亲离开孩子才能回来。 -cruiser99(Cruiser); 2009-6-12 (#5337465@0)

如果没有其他人在场，就必须离开。效果是一样的。 -buug(Crouching Tiger); 2009-6-12 (#5338024@0)

以保护知名行惩罚之为。 -buug(Crouching Tiger); 2009-6-12 (#5338015@0)

" where her death would have been avoided had the toddler not been 'kidnapped' away." - do you have any expert witnress who is willing to support your opinion? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 {167} (#5337383@0)
if you do, please refer the witness to the poor mother's family so that they can take legal action against CAS.

Otherwise, it is just another Rolia's speculation.

according to this article, apparently ontario ombudsman doesn't have power to investigae CAS's, hence the corruption continues -lindros88(枫叶第一); 2009-6-12 (#5336658@0)

Overspeneding is an characterisitics of government funded organization. Pleaselook at eHealth. Are the parents comfortable to let CAS take care the kids in your exampleÉ -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5337425@0)

这破事儿要从结果上来认定对与错吧? CAS真的避免了很多悲剧吗? 我怎么表示怀疑呢. 光是假惺惺地说它的出发点有多高尚无济于世. 那些阿拉伯人在家里对女孩子进行虐待, 都知道要避开CAS; 反而有些正常管教孩子的家庭反而因为没有恶意不知掩盖被当成虐童被CAS带走的 -mickeyh(mickey); 2009-6-12 (#5337509@0)

就算最后被他们收留的孩子,能有好结果的一定很少------------这种机构根本就是弱智加浪费税金 -mickeyh(mickey); 2009-6-12 (#5337510@0)

有人有统计结果吗, 贴上来, 不相信有多乐观的数据 -mickeyh(mickey); 2009-6-12 (#5337512@0)
any statistics to provee your view? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5337743@0)

you lack some logical thinking, period. -anthonylo2008(anthonylo); 2009-6-12 (#5337945@0)
CAS 就是一颗正树上长的歪果。不让人摘，不让人管。 -buug(Crouching Tiger); 2009-6-12 (#5338038@0)

@BC

forgot to include the link

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