听你的口气好像没有CAS，就没有别的社团、机构帮助他们了？CAS的问题不在于那些孩子是否应该得到帮助，而是CAS被赋予太多的权利，并且被滥用了。 -bdbs(布丁本色) @BC省华人论坛:BC省枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of BC

枫下茶话 / 社会 / 对死者及家庭深表同情，愿父子从此永远安康！但即使挨骂，我也要说：看过都市报记者的详细报告后，我觉得CAS，家庭法庭的法官和一直协助王家的社工，全都很专业的合法的履行了他们的职责。孩子们得到了应当的保护和照顾。 -kxd(开心点); 2009-6-12 (#5337523@0)

将死者原有的精神问题导致的悲剧怪罪到CAS头上，似乎太过情绪化了。我也是为人父母，爱子如命。假如我或家人有精神问题，不能善尽父母之责甚至可能伤害到孩子，请CAS务必将孩子及时带离我们，直至恢复。再次对死者及家庭深表同情，愿父子从此永远安康！ -kxd(开心点); 2009-6-12 (#5337526@0)

I hope every Rolian has the same understanding as yours. CAS is here to help us, not to kill children. Unfortunately, someone belived them! -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5337599@0)

(#5337176@0) -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5337626@0)

I hate union as much as you but I really don't see your point that CAS is as bad as union. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5337798@0)

起初成立的时候本意是好的，发展到现在已经危害到公众的利益了，再往后就是严重危害了，想南边那样。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5337844@0)

if you think CAS 危害到公众的利益, can you please prove it. I can refer your points to government. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5337884@0)

看看这个吧。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 {319} (#5338133@0)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACzTGylEWgE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACzTGylEWgE&feature=PlayList&p=3AD4B1A80430BFEA&index=0&playnext=1

这个精神问题是那么好断定的吗？再就是精神疾病是众多疾病中的一种，谁说只要有精神疾病就一定会伤害到孩子？你生别的什么病不也影响到照顾孩子吗？就让CAS把你的孩子带走你同意吗？ -yuanfei(yuanfei); 2009-6-12 (#5337820@0)

+1 -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5337589@0)
(#5336771@0) -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5337621@0)
专业的合法的杀人。 -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛，死如); 2009-6-12 (#5337663@0)

如果在事情发生的一天或者几天内自杀了，可以说CAS事件直接导致了她自杀；如果自杀发生在数月之后，好像说“CAS导致了她自杀”比较牵强。。。 - 而你得“专业的合法的杀人”就更是bull。。。shit。。。 -guanshui88(约定); 2009-6-12 (#5337696@0)

"全都很专业的合法的履行了他们的职责"-------这句话绝对的P话. 专业根本谈不上吧? 这个女人得的是郁症, 根本不具备攻击性, 却被当做攻击性精神病来处理, 这叫什么专业啊 -mickeyh(mickey); 2009-6-12 (#5337680@0)

这种话在许多案子责任推脱部分都会见得到 -mickeyh(mickey); 2009-6-12 (#5337683@0)
在诊所里因为CAS的突然出现，所谓的“摊牌”，他们完全可以让这位可怜的母亲表现出他们需要的攻击性。 -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-12 (#5337699@0)
。。。一个抑郁母亲将5个孩子一个一个的溺死与。。。 -guanshui88(约定); 2009-6-12 (#5337702@0)

慈爱母亲为何亲手杀5子？产后抑郁症导致悲剧 -guanshui88(约定); 2009-6-12 (#5337716@0)

"郁症, 根本不具备攻击性"-------这句话绝对的P话. -bully2007(2007); 2009-6-12 (#5337717@0)
产后抑郁症教师因为爱而将亲子溺死抛尸河中(图) cq.xinhuanet.com/2009-05/11/content_16485009.htm -guanshui88(约定); 2009-6-12 (#5337724@0)
年轻女教师产后抑郁溺死2月大亲生儿子 -guanshui88(约定); 2009-6-12 (#5337727@0)

你找出十万条depression杀人的案例，也改变不了安省五家CAS一年死91孩，逼死这位可怜母亲的事实。 -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-12 (#5337787@0)

Can you please show me any article tha CAS killed 91 children. But I found the following -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 {247} (#5337809@0)
"The involvement of a Children's Aid Society did not appear to be a factor in the majority of child deaths. In cases where there was involvement by a Children's Aid Society, most deaths could not have been foreseen or prevented by the agency.”

这句话有意思“most deaths could not have been foreseen or prevented by the agency”。什么叫不可预见和不可预防？我们可以对比CAS弄走的小孩死亡率及普通父母养育的小孩死亡率的数据，应该能够得到统计值。既然只有91人，也可以逐个检查每个小孩的死亡原因。 -hurrah(猫眼); 2009-6-12 (#5338880@0)

There is an independent committe which review every single case and come up with the above conclusion. Can you please tell me where you learnt that the 91 dead children are in CAS custody. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5340395@0)

看来你是CAS的吧。你说说这个committe的人员组成吧。不会又是一个privacy理由来推卸吧。不是91，那么到底有几例是in CAS custody?如果只有0例，那就不用调查了？我们信吗？ -hurrah(猫眼); 2009-6-13 (#5340759@0)

I am an IT guy working in financail industry. Never work in CAS and never know anyone work in CAS; so I don't know how many children who are in CAS custody were died in 2007. I just don't like people quoted wrong information on web. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 {54} (#5340810@0)
People may die if they listen to wrongful information.

这个世界上有人愿意让CAS当孩子爹妈，那是他们的自由，请不要把自己的价值观强行向他人兜售。 -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-13 (#5340956@0)

这么个案子就一定和这个妈妈扯上联系? 如果他们如些自信, 为什么对这个病人束手无策呢? 你信, 我反正不信 -mickeyh(mickey); 2009-6-12 (#5338183@0)

CAS's mandate is to avoid children abuse, not to help mentail ill patient. CAS doesn't have the resources or expertise to help mental ill patients. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338308@0)

对孩子的身体，不可侵犯；对孩子的心灵呢？你认为在CAS里的孩子，成长得会跟其他孩子一样？ -ignoreme(别当真); 2009-6-12 (#5338347@0)

Of course no, most children who are in CAS custody are those who had experienced serious abuse (physically and emotionally )for extensive period. It is very hard for them to recover. But without CAS, they don't stand a chance to recover or improve! -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338395@0)

你的原话...."女人得的是郁症, 根本不具备攻击".... -guanshui88(约定); 2009-6-12 (#5338434@0)

这个女人是这样, 不是精神病都有攻击性, 她这种只会自残 -mickeyh(mickey); 2009-6-12 (#5338976@0)

do more research before you throw up this "这个女人得的是郁症, 根本不具备攻击性".. there are numerous cases that mothers with depression killed their kids before killing themselves. -anthonylo2008(anthonylo); 2009-6-12 (#5337915@0)
here is one good reference for you: When Depressed People Kill Their Children -anthonylo2008(anthonylo); 2009-6-12 {83} (#5337924@0)
http://www.manic-depression.net/depressive/depressed_people_kill_their_children.htm
http://www.manic-depression.net/depressive/depressed_people_kill_their_children.htm

CAS用纳税人的钱，动用国家机器来逼死一个精神病的母亲，做得特合法，特专业。 -szs11(Hedge); 2009-6-12 (#5337784@0)

去参加这个可怜妈妈的葬礼吧，帮一帮这个令人心碎的家庭吧。 -oldyou(老油); 12:21 (#5337054@0) -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-12 (#5337796@0)
do you know any medical expert who can prove CAS 逼死一个精神病的母亲? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5337814@0)

CAS至今不敢直接面对公众的质疑，就很说明了问题。有些proof是等不到的，就像温哥华机场那几个皇家骑警，杀人之后，最后好像还是判了个无罪吧。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5337863@0)

温哥华机场的杀人录像，推翻了所有RCMP之前的谎言，尽管如此，没有人需要负责，因为那是一个system。 -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-12 (#5337878@0)

哦，我终于懂了，原来你志向高远，要革命啊。 -copperbean(豆泡果之铜豌豆); 2009-6-12 (#5337889@0)

那位失去儿子的母亲没有选择沉默，尽管公众聆讯把儿子生前诸如酗酒、被捕记录等隐私抖了出来。即使永远不能hold someone accountable，让更多的人群记住，我们面对的是怎样的豺狼，生命也不会白白逝去。 -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-12 (#5337912@0)

Is there a 公众的质疑? There is only indivual query to this specific case. If CAS has to answer every single query about any of their cases, they need a lot more resources. But if you really want a 公众的质疑, -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 {46} (#5337895@0)
ask your MPP to do it and specify your reason.

"兒童保護協會回應：不對具體個案發表評論" (#5336647@0) (#5336877@0) -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5337928@0)

可以预见的是，随着公众和媒体的持续加压，CAS会发表一个声明，表示deep sorrow about the life loss，但是坚称他们很合法地专业地做了他们该做的事情。 -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-12 (#5337947@0)

（对这种由精神问题自杀的案例？）看来你有狂想症，该看医生了。。。 -guanshui88(约定); 2009-6-12 (#5337964@0)

It is just an individual inquiry from 1 single reporter. It is not a 公众的质疑 and CAS also has to protect the victim's privacy. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338129@0)

媒体还不算公众的话，怎么算公众？游行、集会才算？那也只是一小撮人。#5338133@0 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5338141@0)

it is just 1 single reporter? If you were the victim's husband, do you want your wife's privacy to be disclsed in public? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338223@0)

拉倒吧, 为什么还要经过MPP? 记者问都没用. 充分表明他们只要protect their a**. At minimum the father deserves a response from CAS. -dusk(~小桥流水~); 2009-6-12 {187} (#5337930@0)
"兒童保護協會回應：不對具體個案發表評論《加拿大都市報》記者6月9日走訪了皮爾區兒童保護協會，該協會公關總監Lucie Baistrocchi在聽完記者介紹王家案子情況後表示，他們将不對具體個案發表評論。"

If a reporter goes to your family doctor and asks about your medical history; do you think your family doctor should answer his query. I prefer not! -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338132@0)
and how do you know CAS didn't give a response to the victim's husband? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338135@0)

大家注意，有一伙CAS的便衣混在群众中。把他们揪出来！ -72350(72350); 2009-6-12 (#5337827@0)

已经不是便衣了。完全是拿着税银刷网的职业选手，传说中的五毛。 -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-12 (#5337929@0)

老油你眼尖，能不能把他们的ID列举下？ -ignoreme(别当真); 2009-6-12 (#5338118@0)

typical mainlander thinking -anthonylo2008(anthonylo); 2009-6-12 (#5338116@0)

对已经有些精神疾病倾向的这个可怜的妈妈，把她的孩子带走是直接导致她精神崩溃的源头。 -yuanfei(yuanfei); 2009-6-12 (#5337883@0)

如果不带走伤害到孩子呢？依然会谴责声一片。所有认为不该带走孩子的人都基于一个假设：母亲一定不会伤害孩子。这个假设有很多人质疑呢。 -copperbean(豆泡果之铜豌豆); 2009-6-12 (#5337903@0)

CAS and the court have to make their judgement. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5337905@0)

they shouldn't be allowed to have any action before the judgment is made -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5337943@0)

How about COP? -guanshui88(约定); 2009-6-12 (#5337954@0)

很遗憾，COP有这个权利带走任何人。CAS跟COP勾结起来的后果是十分可怕的。可是在这件事情上，好像COP没有参与。完全是CAS的行为。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5337972@0)

COP 当时在场，表示不同意CAS带走孩子。当时COP和CAS在现场意见有分歧。CAS的人说得问问，就拿出手机打了个电话，放下电话后说得带走（这个就是所谓的授权？？）。 -ninini(茫茫然); 2009-6-12 {140} (#5338640@0)
据BLUELOVE 说，当CAS说完后，她哭了，在场的警察也是眼含热泪。并拿出张名片，让她收下，说会给她有帮助。她说她当时也没心事顾上这些，名片也没拿。

所以更说明CAS责任重大，并且要追究其法律责任。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5339113@0)
... -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-12 (#5339120@0)
I am sorry but I had a few encouter with firends and relative who had mental illness so I really can't believe everything a mental patients said. The good thing is we have a lot of weakness from various organization. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 {250} (#5340439@0)
So if we can get our government to launch a public investigation, we may still be able to find the truth. But at this point, I prefer not to blame anyone or any organization.

Except I asked people not to believe everything that was said on web!

Court is very busy and it may make a few days to make any judgement. And when it come to child abuse, a few days delay can mean the loss of a child's life. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 {183} (#5338142@0)
This is why the law to allow CAS to take proactive measurement without a court order. But even if CAS waits for the court order, then Rolians may just turn the target too the judge..

我们有警察机构，不需要CAS。如果普通公民连抓侵犯到自己的小偷的权利都没有，为什么CAS就可以被授权，随便去禁锢别人的自由？ -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5338160@0)

And if police officers made the same decision to separate the baby from the mother, then you are OK with the outcome? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338229@0)

That's the different story. (#5338139@0) -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5338242@0)

why different? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338312@0)

那是警察机构的监管问题，在法律的框架里。这里在讨论CAS的事儿，当然是different story啦。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5338321@0)

CAS has its own 监管 and complain channel. But my question is when police officers has the same authority and made the same decision as a CAS worker, would you accept the unfortunate consequence. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338401@0)

自己监管自己等于没有监管。而且，他们不应该被赋予超越法律的权利。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5339115@0)

CAS didn't have 超越法律的权利. They are authorized by our legislation. And they are 监管 by Minister of Children and take order from court. Their power has limit. And if you don't agree with their policy, you can disucss with your MPP. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5339685@0)

警察渎职是警察的责任。多一个corrupted的CAS，只会多一个渎职的机会。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5339121@0)

CAS didn't 渎职. Their mandate is to protect children and they did it in this case. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5339686@0)

事实上，这个母亲在主观上和客观上都没有对孩子造成任何伤害。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5337951@0)

try to give prescription only drugs to an infant without getting doctor's approval. This may already hurt the infant. And did anyone know her behavior in the hospital? Why did the doctor call CAS? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338153@0)

( #5337470@0) (#5337603@0) -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5339166@0)

“如果不带走伤害到孩子呢？”完全是一个圈套，我还差点被他们套里头，以亲身经历同情这个惨死的妈妈，杀人不见血的虚伪的所谓的“保护儿童” -yuanfei(yuanfei); 2009-6-12 (#5337978@0)

你的意思是压根就没有这种可能？那CAS确实不应该存在了。 -copperbean(豆泡果之铜豌豆); 2009-6-12 (#5338005@0)

我确实看不到CAS有存在的必要。我们这个社会已经有法律以及法律的执行机构，为什么要再弄一个专门针对父母和孩子的机构？难道父母、孩子是不在这个社会的法律范畴之内的么？ -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5338023@0)

就说这个例子吧。医生该不该管？如果认为不必狗拿耗子的，那就不说了；认为该管的，那就直接报案，进入法律程序。是不是这样的？ -copperbean(豆泡果之铜豌豆); 2009-6-12 (#5338044@0)

这件事，医生可管可不管，管了没有不对的。CAS处理不当，需要付全责。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5338081@0)

估计医生不能什么都不做，他们也被这套“该死的”系统洗脑了，就好管个闲事。假设没有CAS，那么法庭判决没有下来之前就听天由命了，是吧？ -copperbean(豆泡果之铜豌豆); 2009-6-12 (#5338098@0)

有家庭医生了，还要儿科医生顶 P 用啊？ -win(秋天的菠菜); 2009-6-12 (#5338053@0)

都有医院了，clinic还顶个P呀？ -copperbean(豆泡果之铜豌豆); 2009-6-12 (#5338063@0)

就是。国内的医院制度比这里的家庭医生制度有效得多。家庭医生制度仅适合人口稀少缺少正规医院的地方，类似于国内从前的赤脚医生。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5338090@0)

如果说儿科医生vs家庭医生的话，你是说CAS是属于警察编制，针对父母儿童的政府机构？特警部队的？LOL -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5338073@0)

你置疑 CAS 设置和运行方式，我没意见。如果你置疑儿童需要特殊照顾，我反对。 -win(秋天的菠菜); 2009-6-12 (#5338112@0)

我是置疑 CAS 设置和运行方式 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5338139@0)

so what should CAS do if you were the president of CAS? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338237@0)

解散CAS。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5338317@0)

and let the abused children continue to suffer. I cannot make such recommendation to my MPP. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338403@0)

听你的口气好像没有CAS，就没有别的社团、机构帮助他们了？CAS的问题不在于那些孩子是否应该得到帮助，而是CAS被赋予太多的权利，并且被滥用了。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5339129@0)

Can you please suggest another organization which is authorized to protect abused children? And CAS's power is from our legislation and it is considered adequate by our politican. IF you think it is over power, talk to your MPP. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5339692@0)

孩子怎么办？父母若虐待孩子，警察带走父母，孩子交给谁？ -yusheng(拜月); 2009-6-12 (#5338069@0)

交给其他监护人。如果没有其他监护人的，可以送福利院。没有看出有CAS的必要。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5338084@0)

你比CAS还狠。 -bully2007(2007); 2009-6-12 (#5338089@0)

你认为交给其他监护人（比方祖父母，叔婶）比CAS目前随便扔给一个跟孩子没有任何关系的陌生人家庭要更不人道？ -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5338166@0)

除了你以外，这还有人认为其他监护人就等于亲戚吗？ -bully2007(2007); 2009-6-12 (#5338200@0)

那可能是我表达不清。我这里说的其他监护人是指其他有监护能力的亲戚，如果实在没有这样的亲戚，再看有监护能力并且也愿意的朋友。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5338250@0)

监护人不是亲戚，但亲戚的确是警察的一个选择。另一位好象是在CAS工作的网友不是说了是有可能交给亲戚的，但不是马上，警察在不管什么原因逮捕成人后不能马上问出这些成人本市还有什么亲戚，只能由专门机构过渡。 -yusheng(拜月); 2009-6-12 (#5338245@0)
How do you know CAS随便扔给一个跟孩子没有任何关系的陌生人家庭? 随便? CAS actually would find someone close to the children first. In this case, CAS returned the kid to his father. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338248@0)

父亲在的情况下，就不允许未经父亲同意把孩子带走。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5338332@0)

the father was not present when the baby was taken by CAS. So are you suggestion CAS should wait? If there is a case while CAS wait for the father to show up and the child was killed, then who should be responsible. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338407@0)

当时CAS并没与爸爸联系，也没通知爸爸，爸爸如何PRESENT?如果CAS、警察与孩子及妈妈一起等爸爸的到来，这时孩子还能被妈妈杀了吗？所以你的假设要本不成立。分析事件双方时，请你站在第三方的角度。 -ninini(茫茫然); 2009-6-12 {74} (#5338736@0)
而不要把自己放在攻击或被攻击的一方。否则你永远对公众的质疑声有对抗的心理。

I don't work for CAS and know no body works for CAS and I am mutual to CAS. I made my independent judgement based on my own understanding. How do you know CAS didn't try to contact the father? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 {120} (#5338772@0)
What if (a big if) the mother refused to tell CAS the father's number? Were you there when the baby was taken by CAS?

You tried hard to make your point. However, I don't think you can successfully deliver your message to some, -kittywhy(kittywhy); 2009-6-12 {196} (#5338830@0)
because they are not on the same page as you are in terms of basic understanding of the system, way of thinking and reasoning. This makes it a lot harder than just debating different opinions.

Thanks. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5339707@0)

请你不要故意问我这种挑衅的话：’当时我在现场了吗？‘。如果我当时在现场，我会第一个报告给孩子爸爸的，我也会与CAS协商带走孩子的方式。 -ninini(茫茫然); 2009-6-12 {193} (#5338912@0)
我也学学你的方式问你一句　Were you there when the baby was taken by CAS?为什么你要极力维护你们CAS的做法呢？

我所知道的是孩子妈妈活着的时候亲口讲给我的。你又是从哪儿知道的？还是主观臆断的？？

I didn't try to 挑衅 you; sorry if I gave you the impression. I was NOT there and therefore, I cannot judge CAS. I didn't 极力维护你们CAS的做法. But until we have a public investigation that confirm CAS had wrong doing. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 {777} (#5339705@0)
I just hope people (or children) who may need support from CAS would not get scared away from CAS and turned out to be another disaster, e.g. children got killed.

I have friends and very closed relatives who were mentally ill. And I just can't believe everything they said when they were sick. Since you know the family, do you mind to tell us if the baby did really have lung bleeding. That was her major complain to her doctor.

All I tried to say is no body has a full picture on what happened. And if we jump to conclusion, it is very dangerous for those who may need CAS help.

If you really want to know the answer, call your MPP or Minister of Children to launch an investigation. I did that! Although, I don't agree CAS has any wrong doing at this point.

hkchan,看到你晚睡早起地关注着这一事态，和为你所做的，表示感谢。就你写的，让我简单回复一下。 -ninini(茫茫然); 2009-6-13 {849} (#5340162@0)
１，你的hope和CAS的hope是好的。这一点我一直不反对。但在这一事件上，为实现这一HOPE所采取行动的方式的的确确scare了死者和网友。
２，你有权力完全不相信一个精神有问题的人所说的所有的话，但孩子那几天流鼻血却是不争的事实。但这鼻血到底是从哪来的，得由医生仔细检查来下结论。不是你我完全不相信就可否认的。
３，’no body has a full picture on what happened‘，对，只有死者知道这个full picture，可惜她还不能讲话了。难道其他人就没有质疑的权力吗？难道CAS都完美到没有改进的空间了吗？
４，你让我们不要’jump to conclusion', 可是你自己却直接jump to conclusion了‘I don't agree CAS has ANY wrong doing at this point. ’
5, 如果你是持有这种观点‘I don't agree CAS has any wrong doing at this point’来 call your MPP or Minister of Children to launch an investigation的话，call 与不call没什么区别吧。
但你做了，无论起不起作用，作用有多大，我们都表示非常地感谢！

Don't thank, I feel sorry that I did not read victim's post earlier. You may think I am big nose but I would call 911 right away! -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 {2313} (#5340483@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛1. good to have the same background that we are all trying to hope for the best for any children, yours, mine and everyone else. And if we have minor disagreement, we can disucss our difference in a civilized manner.
2. I believe the multiple doctors had made the conclusion and 1 month is over. Up to your best knowledge, did the baby have lung bleeding?
3. If (a big if)she really have mental illness, then even the victim may not have the full picture. But according to some post, there were witness from CAS, police force, and other professional medical staffs from hospital. They can rebuild the full picture if we have a public investigation. I totally agree that someone should challenge any problem or just potential problem. My only difference from most of you is don't jump to any conclusion and blame anyone or any organization. I don't just stand up for CAS. If you have time to read my post, you should bel able to see I also stand up for the poor husband!!
4. I assume everyone is innocent until proven otherwise. It is my value and I think this is why I like Canada because it is the foundation of Canadian legal system.
5. I just told my MPP that there was such incident and majority of Chinese community was very upset about the result and I asked for a public investigation. I didn't include my "speculation" or "assumption" in my email.

As I always mention, I am mutual to CAS. I am not their lawyer and they won't pay me a single cent for all my worksI did here.

I said it so many time, my only point is don't believe everything that you heard from web, verify it and use your own logic. I hope someone who may need CAS won't turn away from CAS because of bad reviews that were posted on Rolia. If the effort that I spend on Rolia in the last few days, can't just save 1 innocent life, I would you champagne to celebrate. I don't know the victim but I am sorry for her, her husband and especially her elder son.

And I hope you can tell more people to write to their MPP tomorrow. My voice is small at Rolia and even smaller in front of my MPP and Minister of Children. Please, please and please to spread the message. Together we can make a difference. And leave our difference in Rolia.

Please send my warmest regard to her family tomorrow.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

我明天一定把你的心意代到。 -ninini(茫茫然); 2009-6-13 (#5341055@0)

Our government has to train all the police officer to handle child abuse? And our government has to hire more police officers to handle these extra duties? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 {70} (#5338169@0)
And then Roians would start pointing their fingers to police officers.

do you mind to share your 亲身经历? how did they 杀人不见血 to you? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338159@0)

我说句难听的，欢迎你们来CAS看看比动物更禽兽的父母。 -ontariocas(CAS); 2009-6-12 (#5337952@0)

您是在说死者吗。 -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-12 (#5337958@0)

很遗憾你这么想。似乎别人都是禽兽，唯独你爱心独具地号令天下。 -copperbean(豆泡果之铜豌豆); 2009-6-12 (#5337968@0)

当你们说天下无不是之父母，我只好说天下有比动物更禽兽的父母，不是说死者，这个美丽河山什么人都有。 -ontariocas(CAS); 2009-6-12 (#5338003@0)

我相信有，所以才需要某些机构（解散了CAS，也会有另一个）的介入。至于运作得如何，那倒是应该讨论的。 -copperbean(豆泡果之铜豌豆); 2009-6-12 (#5338010@0)

why 解散CAS? if CAS has problems and you can prove it, then we can ask our government to reform it. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338181@0)

reform？我看完全没有存在的必要。有很多其他的社团、机构能够帮助到那些孩子。比方说：红十字。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5339134@0)

Red Cross is not authorized to protect child abuse, they don't have the power nor the resources. Please double check their web site. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5339709@0)

这话讲得很没道理。你不能因为有杀人犯的存在，就把平民也给枪毙了。 -szs11(Hedge); 2009-6-12 (#5337987@0)

这个比喻非常没有道理 -guanshui88(约定); 2009-6-12 {57} (#5338001@0)
如果那个所谓的百姓具有“杀人犯”的特征，完全可以先抓起来

对呀，你可以采取一定的处置，但不一定是最严厉的处置。CAS处置失当，这一点应该没什么好辩解的。 -szs11(Hedge); 2009-6-12 (#5338047@0)

你这句话说的没有道理，这一点应该没什么好辩解的。 -bully2007(2007); 2009-6-12 (#5338068@0)
就这么直接定罪了？不用上法庭了。 -0000000(Oops); 2009-6-12 (#5338077@0)
那你认为该怎么办？ -yusheng(拜月); 2009-6-12 (#5338079@0)
If you can prove CAS处置失当, please contact the victim's husband. He would definitely appreciate your assistance to sue CAS for damage. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338195@0)

Have you watched a movie called "Minority Report"? So who should prove someone has “杀人犯”的特征 and who define “杀人犯”的特征. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338186@0)

现在的问题是：这个母亲，算禽兽么？CAS还有一众人，在没有权威机构的检查和证言下，不知道是不是通过了法庭，将某“嫌疑”人的孩子拿下，是不是合乎程序？嫌疑＝事实？ -ignoreme(别当真); 2009-6-12 (#5338093@0)

CAS好象就是你说的权威机构 -bully2007(2007); 2009-6-12 (#5338100@0)

And if there is a 权威机构 make the same decision, are you asking for another more 权威机构? and so on..... -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338197@0)

是。别说我不懂经济学，这个是原则问题。或者也简单：法律规定，最高法院最终解释权。CAS是不是最终权威不知道，如果不是，干吗不问到底？？ -ignoreme(别当真); 2009-6-12 (#5338221@0)

为什么讨论这个问题需要懂经济学？ -bully2007(2007); 2009-6-12 (#5338236@0)
You are right, there is existing mechanism to challenge CAS and its decision. And if you believe and prove CAS has any wrong doing, please bring it up to court. You can help victim's family. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338330@0)

agree! although not all of them are animals, some of them are mentally ill and they cannot control themselves nor take care the children. CAS tried to help their children where other medical units can help the patients. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338174@0)
你纯属放P, 如果你看到一个这样的母亲就推及所有, 那么你也会是同类, 这个妈妈的一言一行只让人心酸, 根本与你说的” 比动物更禽兽的父母”扯不上任何关系, 你能这样说话, 说明CAS的人脑子坏掉的比较多 -mickeyh(mickey); 2009-6-12 (#5338193@0)

你放的这个P充分表现了你是一脑残。 -bully2007(2007); 2009-6-12 (#5338228@0)

公鸡，定住 -ignoreme(别当真); 2009-6-12 (#5338238@0)

谢谢。 -bully2007(2007); 2009-6-12 (#5338257@0)

无语。你不是也公鸡人家是脑残？ -ignoreme(别当真); 2009-6-12 (#5338286@0)

这个“也”字用得好。 -bully2007(2007); 2009-6-12 (#5338302@0)

这么激动干啥? 小心哦,情绪激动也是精神病一种 -zhayan(with an Orchid); 2009-6-12 (#5338243@0)

希望下回他有机会根CAS打交道的时候不要”脑残”-----那时候处处被人当精神病, 他就舒坦了 -mickeyh(mickey); 2009-6-12 (#5338260@0)

放心，肯定不会象你那样。 -bully2007(2007); 2009-6-12 (#5338271@0)

那是啊, 你就服贴地去跳楼了, 跳楼前也不会质疑CAS -mickeyh(mickey); 2009-6-12 (#5338277@0)

你今天吃什么了，又放一P。不要含沙射影死者， -bully2007(2007); 2009-6-12 (#5338293@0)

有脑袋的人都知我含沙了谁, 你这头猪 -mickeyh(mickey); 2009-6-12 (#5338304@0)

求你了，少放两个P不行吗。 -bully2007(2007); 2009-6-12 (#5338315@0)

下回轮到你CAS, 一定要ENJOY啊, GOOD LUCK! -mickeyh(mickey); 2009-6-12 (#5338326@0)

真是一脑残, 连话都不会说，什么叫“轮到你CAS”？ CAS什么时候成了动词？ -bully2007(2007); 2009-6-12 (#5338341@0)

呵呵, 你是语法学得好学是脑子有水? -mickeyh(mickey); 2009-6-12 (#5339025@0)

放P的那位听到没有？ -bully2007(2007); 2009-6-12 (#5338264@0)

ontariocas didn't refer to the victim. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338256@0)
你这几天的言论真让人失望，情绪失控，粗话连篇，一味攻击加拿大，谁也没有请你呆在这儿呀 -littlesquirrel(小松鼠); 2009-6-12 (#5339077@0)

我不否认有那样的父母，不否认生活在那样的家庭中的孩子需要保护，也不否认在某些案例中CAS的积极作用。我质疑的是CAS的设置和运行方式，权力大小和使用方式，以及受监管（经济上和运作上）的方式。不能因为CAS干过好事就可以否认其它所有的罪恶。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5338294@0)

自己打自己一巴掌，不疼吗？(#5338023@0) -copperbean(豆泡果之铜豌豆); 2009-6-12 (#5338544@0)

不懂你是怎么理解的。CAS干过一些好事不等于承认其存在的必要，因为同样的事别人也会干，也许干得还更好。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5339110@0)

who else is protecting abused children in ontario? and who can do it better than CAS? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5339713@0)

if you can be more specific on the problem of CAS, what is wrong with its policy and procedure. You can send an email to your MPP and Minsiter of Children to raise your concern. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 {22} (#5339711@0)
I just did last night.

大家都是同情死者及其家庭，有人高度情绪化我也能理解。请花几分钟仔细读一读link都市报记者的详细报告－我欣赏他们站在华人立场也能做出公正中立理智的调查报告，让我们对事情的来龙去脉有清晰了解。 -kxd(开心点); 2009-6-12 (#5337959@0)

调查？他们有跟踪过谁吗？这样的调查，打几个电话上几个网，别看了。 -ignoreme(别当真); 2009-6-12 (#5338106@0)

主要是没有听取你的意见。 -copperbean(豆泡果之铜豌豆); 2009-6-12 (#5338126@0)

没办法，华社的报纸，不太敢比较尖锐的看问题。估计是华社的自保传统。 -ignoreme(别当真); 2009-6-12 (#5338154@0)

any media and responsible reporter can only report truth and fact but not speculation. What 尖锐的看问题 you expect them to raise? And why don't you raise it to newspaper like Toronto Star or your MPP? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5339716@0)

精神问题导致的伤害孩子的家庭悲剧实在是太多太多了。如果CAS的职责是＂儿童协助及父母精神问题救助＂组织，我会指责他们：没有在送还孩子一个多月后与英国的加国的精神科医生，以及接太太出院回来的丈夫持续合作，观察王太太的病情发展以预防悲剧发生。 -kxd(开心点); 2009-6-12 (#5337990@0)

Who is 英国的加国的精神科医生? Is this 英国的加国的精神科医生 willing to work with CAS? And how do you expect CAS to 预防悲剧发生? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 {92} (#5338211@0)
CAS already arranged medical appointment for the victim. What else do you expect CAS to do?

CAS不参合进来，就没它什么事了。这个是我最好建议。没有CAS，父母犯法搞孩子，有法院做主，OVER。CAS只是父母被据押后，临时看护孩子的地，慈善机构。 -ignoreme(别当真); 2009-6-12 (#5338251@0)

Court does not do operation work or provide children care. Someone have to collect evidence; provide supports and coordinate all necessary work. You can consider court is the brain and CAS is its hands. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338343@0)
顺序错了。什么时候见过法院定罪在先，警察拘捕疑犯在后？ -bully2007(2007); 2009-6-12 (#5338357@0)

good example! -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338443@0)
警察有权拘捕，CAS没有这个权利。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5339138@0)

CAS有权带人! 否则如何在警察眼皮底下将人带走的? -guanshui88(约定); 2009-6-12 (#5339172@0)

我是说，CAS不应该有这个权利。所以LS (#5338357@0)的类比是错误的。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5339217@0)

everybody is entitled to his/her opinion. 你完全有权力质疑。只是有一点，你可能需要理清，CAS有没有权力，有没有违法，是依据现行法律的。而现行法律是说它有权带人的。如果认为现行法律有问题，那是修改立法的问题。这是两个层面上的问题。 -kittywhy(kittywhy); 2009-6-12 (#5339314@0)

CAS的问题不在于那些孩子是否应该得到帮助，而是CAS被赋予太多的权利，并且被滥用了。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 22:30 (#5339129@0) -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5339379@0)

”# 所以更说明CAS责任重大，并且要追究其法律责任。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 22:26 (#5339113@0) Reply // 反了。应该是父亲签字同意才可以把孩子带走。没有父亲的同意，开始就不允许把孩子带走。可以算作非法禁锢，绑架。“ 你说的是那个法？ -kittywhy(kittywhy); 2009-6-12 (#5339396@0)

前半个是说CAS有间接杀人的嫌疑，要追究其法律责任。后半个我说的是”可以算作“，意思是那样的行为本来是属于”非法禁锢，绑架“，可是被合法化了。如链接中，西人用的词是”legally kidnapped“--合法绑架。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5339455@0)

CAS is authorized by Ontario legislation to separate the child if they think the child is in extreme dangerous. And they have internal guideline how to measue the level of emergency. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 {114} (#5339720@0)
And their internal guideline is monitor by various government committes. Ontario government has control over CAS.

#5338133@0 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-13 (#5339460@0)

CAS do have this authority. On the other hand, Police has to involve CAS if they suspect there is child abuse invloved. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5339717@0)

CAS只是专门的儿童保护救助组织，从来没有被赋予成人精神问题救助的职责。CAS在医院报告后介入，在亲自调查（跟踪面谈）后判断王太有精神问题不能尽母责，为避免可能的儿童被伤害（谁能保证一定不会？），在法庭授权下及时出手隔离母子...... -kxd(开心点); 2009-6-12 (#5338109@0)

其后几天通过一直协助王家的社工了解到父亲正常，能照顾小孩，于是在父亲签保证书后很快将孩子送还，至此CAS职责已尽。一个多月后王太从英国的精神医院出院回家，在孩子早已回家，连王先生都认为妻子＂看上去没什么异样＂的情况下发生了悲剧，怪罪到CAS头上，太情绪化了。 -kxd(开心点); 2009-6-12 (#5338117@0)

你需要了解法律。伤害赔偿是2年期限。按你的说话，1个月没事就算了～～别欺负人哟 -ignoreme(别当真); 2009-6-12 (#5338161@0)

And if you truly believe you have a valid case, then help the victim's husband to take the case to court. As you said, you have 2 years . -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338284@0)
你这会儿起劲了，当初你对这位母亲的言论可不敢恭维，与其追究CAS的责任，还不如自己反省一下自己有没有责任吧 -littlesquirrel(小松鼠); 2009-6-12 (#5339056@0)

反了。应该是父亲签字同意才可以把孩子带走。没有父亲的同意，开始就不允许把孩子带走。可以算作非法禁锢，绑架。 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-12 (#5339224@0)

It is legal under our current legislation. What if the child is abused by both father and mother? And CAS has to get permission from father before they can take away the child? -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5339723@0)

what if? this is not true in this case. what why we are questioning CAS's abuse of their authority. -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-13 (#5339795@0)

Of course in this case, the father didn't physically abuse the baby but the law must be generic to handle most situations. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5340216@0)

按你的逻辑，是不是一人犯罪，全家都要抓起来？ -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-13 (#5340237@0)

this is not my logic. I am just trying to explain to you the logic behind the law. I didn't setup the law. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5340398@0)

"从来没有被赋予成人精神问题救助的职责"------那么就有理由可以放任地诱发别人母亲的病情而不负责任是吗? -----既然没有这个专业能力就不要假装圣人出来害人 -mickeyh(mickey); 2009-6-12 (#5338198@0)

You have to prove 诱发别人母亲的病情 is due to CAS's action. Again, if you can prove it court, please contact victim's husband. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338266@0)

人死了当然没法”PROVE”了, 这就证明你的无辜了? 要是能PROVE, 谁来这里打, 不直接上COURT了? -mickeyh(mickey); 2009-6-12 (#5338292@0)

Court can accept case even if 人死了; e.g. murder! You can't prove it, and just making speculation. Thank you for letting other people know that you have no proof! -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5338419@0)

听过一句话，“见过傻的，没见过这么傻的” ，所以看到这里面认为“CAS合法的履行了职责，“ 我发现这个世界上脑残的人远比想象的多。 -rivereast(一江春水向东); 2009-6-12 {242} (#5338715@0)
我没看到这个母亲把孩子怎么样，我看到是一个不相关的机构打着法律的旗号，把最需要母亲的孩子和最需要孩子的母亲粗暴的分开，给这个母亲致命的一击。在事实面前，还以假设来推测一个离去的母亲对孩子的危害而来证明这样做是合法合理的。
愚蠢的人们，醒醒吧！

That's exactly why I was so outraged. I swear to God this case won't simply end up here. -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-12 (#5338771@0)
"我没看到这个母亲把孩子怎么样". That was our problems. None of us was there when the baby was taken. She might or might not behave very crazy at that moment. But -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 {93} (#5338790@0)
not just the CAS worker had the concern; even the doctor who called CAS had the same concern.

你在那里啊？我觉得你有问题，再加上老油也觉得你有问题，是不是你就真的有问题啊？就是真的有问题，是不是就把你直接给关起来啊？你是真天真还是真傻啊？ -rivereast(一江春水向东); 2009-6-12 (#5338851@0)

大家只是在心平气和的谈论自己的观点，何必动不动就好象义愤填膺的样子，开始人身攻击呢，难道这样就表示你自己的高尚吗？ -littlesquirrel(小松鼠); 2009-6-12 (#5339016@0)

Thank you! -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5340217@0)

你还记得去年在美国和藏独站在一起的那个什么"千原"女孩吗?真不知道该哭还是笑..不过确实是要采取些行动,要不人家永远是DEEP SORRY, BUT WE HAVE DONE OUR JOB. -hmm99(爱听故事); 2009-6-12 (#5339426@0)
Fortunately, both you and 老油 have no authority from our legislation. If you 关起 anyone, it is criminal act. However, CAS is authorized by our legislation and their professional workers are trained to handle such issues. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5339727@0)

我非常同意你的观点，如果CAS没有带走孩子，孩子留给妈妈单独照顾是有危险的，妈妈是很爱孩子，但有时侯过分的爱也是一种伤害，看到妈妈有发帖子说要给她以为有病（其实是健康的）的孩子吃哪怕是过期的什么药物，药是不能乱吃的呀 -littlesquirrel(小松鼠); 2009-6-12 {132} (#5338773@0)
再说CAS很快也把孩子还回来了，妈妈自杀是一个月后的事了。虽然不想指责丈夫，但在CAS带走孩子前妈妈就已经有精神异常这是事实，丈夫是粗心了

现在妈妈死了，这难道不是对孩子最大的伤害？现在造成的伤害对孩子的危险不是更大吗？ -yuanfei(yuanfei); 2009-6-12 (#5338857@0)

可是妈妈死是因为她本身有问题了没有及时得到治疗呀，一味把责任推CAS也不太合理吧 -littlesquirrel(小松鼠); 2009-6-12 (#5338897@0)

因为它是CAS，所以哪怕它石油万分之一的责任，我们也决不饶恕。 -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-12 (#5338981@0)

父亲没有责任吗？你也不饶恕吗？ -littlesquirrel(小松鼠); 2009-6-12 (#5339021@0)

看清楚了给我。父亲是他，不是CAS那个它。 -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-12 (#5339047@0)
父亲没有责任,他已经做的非常好。 -ontariocas(CAS); 2009-6-12 (#5339059@0)

这个话我举4手同意。像 CAS 这么敏感的机构，大家一定要睁大眼监督，而且有意见千万不能藏着掖着，要说要出声。 -win(秋天的菠菜); 2009-6-12 (#5339087@0)

妈妈死了 is not 对孩子最大的伤害. The biggest is one if the baby is dead. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5339261@0)

去研究一下，CAS监护下12-18岁少年的自杀率，比普通家庭高出多少倍吧。 -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-12 (#5339299@0)

I did and since I am a volunteer so I know a lot of social workers. I talked to them and I put my discussion on Rolia, please search for it. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5339730@0)

#5340810@0 -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-13 (#5340963@0)

CAS如此不堪，为什么在最发达的国家中普遍有这个机构存在。发发牢骚可以，但如果真是一个杀人不见血的机构，不用你嚷嚷，早就被取缔了。 -tours(Ourim); 2009-6-12 (#5339038@0)

good point! -hkchan(*); 2009-6-12 (#5339265@0)
(#5337176@0) #5338133@0 -bdbs(布丁本色); 2009-6-13 (#5339465@0)

It is our responsiblity to urge our government to monitor CAS and other goveernment organization, e.g. police. They can make mistake. However, -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 {618} (#5339737@0)
even if there is few police officers who did wrong things, e.g. corruption or killing innocent people or discrimination. I don't think our society would ask to dissolve the police force. Same thing to CAS, if we can prove to the court, CAS and its worker is wrong in this or a few more incidents, I don't think our government would just close down CAS.

But it is worth the effort to lauch a public investigation. It would be up to us to make sure such public investigation is in place.

But until such public investigation is completed, everything is just speculation because we don't know the full pciture.

英国的CAS也写了个报告, 医生也送来一个报告,死者LG应该要求分副本。 -ontariocas(CAS); 2009-6-12 (#5339049@0)

好奇问一声，英国的CAS没有把大儿子带走吗？他们好象没有安省CAS上心哦。 -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-12 (#5339075@0)

她如果在英国做出有害小孩的过分举动, 人家一样会的, 只是她没有做而是住院了. 看样子你挺希望人家不好的? -guanshui88(约定); 2009-6-12 (#5339118@0)
英国要求他们回加拿大,如果她不回加,英国CAS可能会应加CAS要求拿去大儿子 -ontariocas(CAS); 2009-6-12 (#5339342@0)

正所谓天地之大，无所遁形。是听说过迫害无国界。死者好可怜。 -oldyou(生如夏花之燦爛); 2009-6-12 (#5339375@0)
Canadian CAS can make such request but it is up to British CAS to decide what is the best for the elder son based on their own independent investigation. -hkchan(*); 2009-6-13 (#5339742@0)

@BC

听你的口气好像没有CAS，就没有别的社团、机构帮助他们了？CAS的问题不在于那些孩子是否应该得到帮助，而是CAS被赋予太多的权利，并且被滥用了。

Replies, comments and Discussions:

More Topics