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@BC

CCRA agent told me that buyer agent shouldn't treat that rebate as expense. They are suppose treated as discount. Because I didn't provide any service or products to the agent.

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  • 枫下家园 / 枫下觅巢 / 买房经纪给的rebate需要缴税吗?经纪那边把给我的rebate这部分做为expense了,没有缴税。那我需要交吗?
    • 税总是要交的, 他不交,你交。 你不交,他交。都是事先说好的,哪有事后扯皮的。
    • 不用
    • 去店里买东西很多时候也有rebate的,你说那个需要缴税么?那是你自己左口袋放到右口袋去的钱啊。
      • Thanks...confirmed CCRA。不用交税!
        • 如果他知道您的SIN工卡号码,他她可以给您开出T4A,那么你就要向CRA报收入了。
      • 这是完全不一样的概念。 买方经济的收入是从LISTING 经济那里分来的。假设2万,算他当年毛收入,如果给1万回扣,要想抵掉不交税的话,要么自己找1万块钱的发票作为经营抵消。要么拿到回扣人的sin后开1万块的T5给当事人,让拿回扣人作为收入自己报税。
        • 不是T5[存款的利息收入],而是T4A[commission or other income]吧?
          • 谢谢指正。
            • 不客气。俺首次买房时JJ返佣金3%的一半,次年4月我如实报放commission格子里,可6月底CRA居然打到我刚开1周的新手机跟我何时是否的确收到,我肯定。第二天,JJ居然问我为什么报收入了,因为他没报支出给我开T4A,CRA要追他为什么没给我开T4A。看来要事先讲好。
              • 是啊,是啊。事后补救,不如事先沟通。不过归根结底,健康就好。
      • CCRA agent told me that buyer agent shouldn't treat that rebate as expense. They are suppose treated as discount. Because I didn't provide any service or products to the agent.
        • 看来对牛弹琴了,完全两个不同的流程,和商家的REBATE根本不一样。完全不是DISCOUNT性质,是买方经济拿到对方LISTING 经纪的commission后给你的REBATE.在LISING 经济的帐册里给出 2万给买方经济,算他的收入。
          • 你是经纪吧?
            • 到是想来着,考试早过了。现在形势不好,打算先猫一阵再说。
          • 真是对你这头牛弹琴!不懂装懂真可怕。你去看看expense accounting的定义再来发言。还给人家T4A呢?好笑!
            • 无知者无畏啊! 你先要把房产交易commisson 操作的流程搞清楚,再来笑我。真想给你上上课。但是转念一想,我这都花钱学来的,没必要免费传授。你的问题,我在地产考牌时就向OREA 的专家请教过了。和你再争,有意思吗?没见网上JJ 都不吱声?想咋样就咋样,反正我也不是CCRA.
              • 算了,还是再给你上上课。你的理解和信息完全是站在经纪的角度。这没错!但是你看问题不够全面!我现在和你讨论的也是一个税务问题。在经纪的角度报discount和expense的最后的net income都是一样的。但是实质上这个不是expense。因为它并不满足expense的条件。
                本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛算了,还是再给你上上课。你的理解和信息完全是站在经纪的角度。这没错!但是我现在和你讨论的是一个税务问题。在经纪的角度报discount和expense的最后的net income都是一样的。但是实质上这个不是expense。因为它并不满足expense的条件。我没有提供任何的products 或者是service。稍微懂点accounting的人应该明白我在说什么。这里就不具体多解释了。目前这一块对于CCRA也是比较新的问题,所以我们在网上找不到完善的税法。美国已经很明确了,no tax on realtor commision rebate。
                Tax reporting for commission rebates

                In today's difficult housing market it has become commonplace for brokers to offer buyers a cash rebate of a portion of their commission. A common question many brokers and buyers have is whether such rebates are taxable income that must be reported to the IRS on Form 1099-MISC. The answer is no.

                The IRS says that a cash rebate paid to a buyer of property at or after closing is an adjustment in the price, and is therefore not taxable income to the buyer. Rather, the buyer should subtract the amount of the rebate from the home's basis. This will, of course, increase any potential profit when the home is sold.

                Since they are not taxable income, such rebates need not be reported on Form 1099-MISC. Thus, brokers should not send 1099s to buyers reporting such rebates. Any buyer who has received a 1099 that reports such a payment in error should ask the broker to correct or withdraw it更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
                • 如果你能理解,经济费是完全由卖家支付给listing agent, 然后由listing agent 分给buyer agent. 作为买家,和commission 没有半毛钱的关系,就迎刃而解了,不然一切都是白搭。
                • 如果我没理解错的话,美国的做法是在交房后将rebate 在房价中减去,作为房屋的最终成交价。
                • This makes perfect sense.
                • 纯粹不懂装懂。Rebate和Discount是指把钱退给付钱的人,当然不需要缴税;而把钱给直接付钱人之外的第三方,就不是Rebate和Discount了,应算是Gift,计入营销成本。举个例子:
                  在商店买东西,折扣和Cash Rebate就是属于退给付款人的钱,是Rebate;保险公司付钱请人帮助做Survey,而这个人从保险公司支付的钱中拿出10块钱给每个参加Survey的人,这个行为就不是Rebate了,而是gift。Gift如果数额大,是需要缴税的。有人要问了,那按你说的,父母给子女的Gift也要交税了?不用,父母给的钱属于税后收入。而企业给个人的Gift一定会记入成本的,是从税前收入中支付的,接受者理应交税。
                  • 我一个朋友刚开始做经纪的时候,把退给买家的钱记入Rebate和Discount一项了,从而降低了毛收入数额,和公司T4A数额不一致,遭到税务局查税。她听了我的建议,把这个钱调整到销售费用项下,就过关了。
                  • 关键是有人一定要把买方和买方JJ绑在一起看作同一PARTY。如果能理解,卖方JJ 和 买方JJ 实质上都是中间人PAID BY 卖家,买家作为独立的一方和中介行为产生的commisson 完全没有一点关系,就不会那么纠结了。
                • 不能把美国的规定搬到加拿大来。美国的房贷利息还可以抵税呢。
            • agree with u " 不懂装懂真可怕".
              • 你Y,到底咋回事整明白了吗?
        • you are right.
        • There must be a miscommunication, call them and explain it again, you will get complete different answer. I bought my first house through a part time agent who is working for CRA. It was exactly same as 牛魔王 said.
    • 不用交,我一个朋友前年买房,拿了18000的rebase,没有缴税。这么大金额,如果要缴税,税务局早查他了。
      • 我那个朋友是看好房子,找经济下offer,所以rebate 很高。他的经济就是报纸上找的,挨个打,找个rebate最高的。
    • 正想找个rebate高的经纪买房,能推荐几个吗,可以pm给我吗
      • 我那个朋友是看好房子,找经济下offer,所以rebate 很高。他的经济就是报纸上找的,挨个打,找个rebate最高的
      • Some agent can do 50%. PM me if you want more information
    • 这不属于Rebate。如果listing agent给卖家退钱,才是Rebate。买方经纪从卖方获得的commission中给买方一部分,属于gift,可以记入成本。而收受gift的买家应该作为收入报税。
      • 既然是gift,那就不要交税的吧?
        • Gift绝对要交税。要不公司不要付大家工资了,全付gift好了。
          • 比喻失当。父母也可以给孩子几万十几万的gift作为首付,去买房的——这要报收入吗? 去年年底大家总来送去的gift card也是$100$200的,接受方要报收入吗?
            • Agent to buyer = B2C.
            • 父母给子女的gift可以理解为是父母纳税后的所得,子女自然不用交税。Agent给客户的gift是生意的费用,是税前所得,客户理应要交税。
    • 如果经纪将这笔开支做成expense,则这笔钱尚未触发税务,那你就要算进自己的income完税。如果经纪已经为这笔钱打过税,那么他可以将这笔钱作为gift赠给你,你无需报税。这里的关键在于:这笔钱是
      before tax,还是after tax。

      After tax - 你收着,enjoy,没有tax。
      Before tax - 你收着,enjoy,年底报税。
    • rebate is not taxable, and I was confirmed by CCRA IT ruling department last year 1. you do not need to report as income of this rebate. 2. agent need report it as expense, but you need to write a receipt for this rebate.
      • 如果真是这样,绝对好事一件,对买家,对经济都是。不过口说无凭,能否找到相应文件,谢谢。
        • forgot to mention, the house should be your principle residence, not for investment.. you can email to CCRA IT Ruling department, and ask them email you. Do not asked agents, they may have hundred answers
          • 有点糊涂了。我听得你说的咋像安省的年New Home Hst Rebate 呢,还要问是自住还是投资。自住的有rebate ,投资的没有。不用缴税,这早有规定啊,我知道。请问,你买的是新房还是二手房?
            • 我来给你解释为什么principle residence和investment在这个问题上有区别。
              对于税务局来说,他们把这个rebate当作一个adjustment on your purchasing price。所以不用交税。对于principle residence没影响,因为。但是对于investment就有影响,cost of purchase price 变了,对captial gain/loss 多少有影响。
              • correct.
              • 从你转来的美国的处理情况看是这样。但加拿大是这样的吗?除了listing agent 可能将buyer agent rebate 部分在签合前adjust好,难道后面还有人帮着做 price adustment , 看看实际购房价是多少?哪个机构啊?
          • 另外,您是买方啊,还是卖方啊?
            • 税务局的人的智商比一般人确实要高一些。他们知道羊毛总是出在羊生上。不论上买还是卖。
              • 这里的政府工作人员的智商绝对不咋样,你打十次电话问,估计八次不一样的回答。另外,上面问题看到了吗,谁帮着adjust final price after rebate 啊?
      • The Rebate CIC mentioned is the money returned to the seller by listing agent who collects commission from the seller client. That is to say the people who receives money is the one who has paid. In the event of .
        buyer agent's giving buyer client part of his commission collected from seller, it's not rebate
        • Your understanding of Rebate is different from CIC's.
          • CIC's Rebate is not taxable, but your Rebate is taxable.
    • My agent told me this way I have to report it as income. An alternative way to do it is contractually lower his commission from say 2.5% to 1% and reduce the transaction price of the house.
      So when we signed an offer this is in the terms of buyer's representation agreement.
      • 税务问题为什么要听buyer agent的。
        • Because his explanation is logical. This is agent company's taxable income. So a taxable expense means someone else need to pay the tax. If we reduce the taxable income in the first place by lower the commission rate, then
          there is no need to create a taxable expense and I, the recipent, does not need to pay tax.
      • 这是通常避免税收的方法, 可是很多listing agent 出于多种原因不肯这样做。
    • 我觉得应该事先谈好。我的情况是先谈好是现金不交税,但是后来经济发现他拿到的钱是按房子税前的算,就跟我提了一下,我就决定让他给T4。
    • jack's answer is correct.
      • 如果真的像Jack所说的这个钱不用交税,那好了,经纪和买家可以商量好把所有Commission都Rebate给买家,然后买家再返钱给经纪,这样经纪的收入也不用上税了。天下有这等好事?
        • 还是你厉害!
        • good point。所以说要缴税.
        • 这是迄今为止最为简洁和有说服力的论据。
        • jack does not say" no tax", pls read carefully ( 2 lines). it is different for principle and investment property. "经纪和买家可以商量好把所有Commission都Rebate给买家,然后买家再返钱给经纪,这样经纪的收入也不用上税了",
          • if you mean " pay cash to agent", according to tax law, it is illegal.I think we should discuss " legal issues" only.
        • 经纪有了收入,不管什么方式,他都应该报税。 你说的这种方式,如果经纪不报,还是应该叫逃税吧。 这跟合理避税还是不一样的。
          • 税务局设计缴税规则时有个原则:只要深究,逃税行为是肯定能抓出来的。如果有抓不出来的逃税行为,这就是漏洞。上面列举的方法就是抓不出来的漏洞,应该是不存在的。
            • 我同意这是一个漏洞,但你要说税务局查不出来,呵呵。 我记得很多年前,CRA 说要严查waiter的消费收入没有申报的问题,比起经济的收入来,那才多少钱錒。
              • 按总人数来比的话,做waiter 的要多个几百倍吧。