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枫下茶话 / 美国话题 / 到了报税最后关头,我还是对怎么报很糊涂。其实我们的情况很简单,07年7月初全家来美至今。美国这边的税有会计师给报,我们只需报加拿大的税。我们7月初过来,差几天不够183天,我的理解我们应是加拿大的税务居民。但这边会计师说要按美国居民报。。。还要等到10月份再报,不明白。
-cc1234(moving);
2008-4-27
{128}
(#4418661@0)
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Google emigrant guide of Canada. 你在美国用1040 报full year resident. 如果你在加拿大没有home和其他联系,可以按departing resident报
-kwirky(kwirky);
2008-4-27
(#4418708@0)
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emigrant 是不是指的移民到美国的, 还是只是 居住在美国 ?
-davfox(davfox);
2008-4-27
(#4418743@0)
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是指放弃加拿大作为你的居住地。我家和你家一样,2007年在美国不足183天,美国的税可以按nonresident报,但是不合算。要想以resident报,需要申请延期。延期最多可以延六个月。等到2008年住满183天(也就是说要等到2008年六月底),可以为2007年做first year choice,作为dual status报2007年的税。如果还满足其他一些条件,你们可以夫妻joint报税,全年作为美国resident报,可以用standard exemption。会计师说的等到10月报,就是从四月底延期六个月,到十月底。
详细解释看pub 519.
-usornot(下决心);
2008-4-27
{310}
(#4418762@0)
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也是一样不合算, first year choice 只能是Dual status, 不能按full year resident 算, pub 519 上说, 好多Deduction 和credit拿不到, 只能拿Exemption, 还不可以file jointly, 只能用filing separately rate.
-xiaoxiuliang(xiaoxiu);
2008-4-27
{3568}
(#4419534@0)
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US-Canada treaty over ride the pub 514. He can claim as full year resident.
-kwirky(kwirky);
2008-4-27
(#4419580@0)
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我真的糊涂了, 这几天把所有IRS 跟TREATY有关的LINK 都给GOOGLE几遍了, 都没看到有这样的好消息. how to use tax treaty to treat first year chioce as a full year resident rather than a dual status taxpayer? If so, Pub.519 is nonsense.
-xiaoxiuliang(xiaoxiu);
2008-4-27
(#4419730@0)
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Treaty text. http://www.intltaxlaw.com/treaties/canada/treaty.htm#CaArticle%20XXV
-kwirky(kwirky);
2008-4-27
(#4419813@0)
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could you help tell me where specifically the treaty in the link said that this situation can claim full year residency? I read the articles in this link one by one several times before but i can not find any.
-xiaoxiuliang(xiaoxiu);
2008-4-27
(#4419831@0)
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Paragraph 1. You can do whatever a US citizen can do for the tax purpose.1. Citizens of a Contracting State, who are residents of the other Contracting State, shall not be subjected in that other State to any taxation or any requirement connected therewith which is other or more burdensome than the taxation and connected requirements to which citizens of that other State in the same circumstances are or may be subjected.
-kwirky(kwirky);
2008-4-27
{351}
(#4419849@0)
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US citizen also can not claim themselves full year residents and claim full deductions if they leave US as the same as we leave canada or stay outside of canda more than 183 days,we generally can not claim ourselves resident and will be treated as non-resident of canada.
-xiaoxiuliang(xiaoxiu);
2008-4-27
{92}
(#4419899@0)
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As dual status, none of you and your wife was resident at the beginning of the year, and both of you become resident at the end of the year. If you and your wife choose to file jointly as resident for the entire year, you can do it.Choosing Resident Alien Status
If you are a dual-status alien, you can choose to be treated as a U.S. resident for the entire year if all of the following apply.
· You were a nonresident alien at the beginning of the year.
· You are a resident alien or U.S. citizen at the end of the year.
· You are married to a U.S. citizen or resident alien at the end of the year.
· Your spouse joins you in making the choice.
-usornot(下决心);
2008-4-27
{423}
(#4419642@0)
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真的是不可以. 是否看到"if ALL of the following apply"? To claim an entire year resident OTHER THAN THAT TWO, all others have to be met, you have to marry a u.s. citizen or resient alien to claim yourself as a full year resident.天哪, 我也希望我没有看到这个ALL. 好好看看这段话in pub. 519.
Choosing Resident Alien Status
If you are a dual-status alien, you can choose to be treated as a U.S. resident for the entire year if all of the following apply.
· You were a nonresident alien at the beginning of the year.
· You are a resident alien or U.S. citizen at the end of the year.
· You are married to a U.S. citizen or resident alien at the end of the year.
· Your spouse joins you in making the choice.
-xiaoxiuliang(xiaoxiu);
2008-4-27
{486}
(#4419748@0)
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如果你的配偶和你一样,今年会满足183天,你完全满足全部要求呀!
-usornot(下决心);
2008-4-27
(#4419790@0)
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等6个月延期只是满足2008 SUBSTANTIAL PRESENCE TEST to qualify you as a first year choice DUAL STATUS taxpayer for 2007. 并不能满足to be a full year resident for 2007. otherwise,if 2008 不足183天, 2007年就不可以做FIRST YEAR CHOICE, 连dual status 也拿不到, 只能是NONRESIDENT.
-xiaoxiuliang(xiaoxiu);
2008-4-27
{96}
(#4419818@0)
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你们两个都是dual status,又一起file jointly for entire year,不是就满足全部条件了?
-usornot(下决心);
2008-4-27
(#4419825@0)
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天哪, PUB. 519 这样清楚, DUAL STATUS 不可以FILE JOINTLY, to claim as full year resident in 2007, you have to marry a qualified u.s. citizen or resident alien in 2007, not married to a dual status taxpayer.How two dual status taxpayer can meet the qualification?
-xiaoxiuliang(xiaoxiu);
2008-4-27
{56}
(#4419864@0)
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You are married to a U.S. citizen or resident alien at the end of the year,。 At the end of the year, 你们两个都是resident,不就是married to a resident alien 了吗?
-usornot(下决心);
2008-4-27
(#4419877@0)
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你说得对, 可是你真的要选择entire year filing jointly吗? 那要报全年两个人WORLDWIDE INCOME to usa (包括没来美之前的在加收入). 不想报全年WORLDWIDE INCOME就只能是DUAL STATUS, 就不能CLAIM DEDUCTIONS.
-xiaoxiuliang(xiaoxiu);
2008-4-27
{1293}
(#4419965@0)
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是的,只能选择一种。去美国前如果12个月内在加拿大待了330天,加拿大的收入可以按国外收入exempt掉(如果你收入高可能不能全部抵掉)
-usornot(下决心);
2008-4-27
(#4420079@0)
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看懂了, 谢谢你, 改去. 再请问一下, 那样全年在加报NONRESIDENT吗? 不能同时全年又是美又是加RESIDENT啊? 怎么报?
-xiaoxiuliang(xiaoxiu);
2008-4-27
(#4420135@0)
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加拿大的收入是肯定要按resident报的。不可能所有的便宜都给你 :)
-usornot(下决心);
2008-4-27
(#4420170@0)
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又看不懂了, 在加是RESIDENT, 之后报全年WORLDWIDE INCOME TO CANADA? 在美也是RESIDENT, 把全年WORLDWIDE INCOME 给USA? 再用FOREIGN EARNED INCOME EXCLUSION EXEPMT 掉? 这有点不通吧, 到底怎么算呢?
-xiaoxiuliang(xiaoxiu);
2008-4-28
(#4420262@0)
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又到IRS international taxpayer 上看了看, 好象说Nonresident Spouse Treated as a Resident report worldwide income这种情况不能claim tax treaty. 只allow saving clause on US source income. 那是不是不能用FOREIGN EARNED INCOME EXCLUSION 330 DAY RULE?
-xiaoxiuliang(xiaoxiu);
2008-4-28
{1081}
(#4420297@0)
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而且DUAL STATUS 不可以FILE JOINTLY, 必须用file separately rate which is very high. 除非是spouse of us citizen or resident alient and both of the couple consent to file jointly. 请详看PUB.519. 或问IRS, 被IRS 抓到了就大了.
-xiaoxiuliang(xiaoxiu);
2008-4-27
(#4419768@0)
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IRS为啥要抓你?
-kwirky(kwirky);
2008-4-27
(#4419806@0)
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TO BE CAUGHT TO PAY PENALTY.
-xiaoxiuliang(xiaoxiu);
2008-4-27
(#4419821@0)
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However, first year chioce can be a good thing enough because we do not need to report our u.s. income to CRA, we can not ask more to claim all deductions and credits (might a few, at least not most).
-xiaoxiuliang(xiaoxiu);
2008-4-27
(#4419782@0)
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Yes in Canada you still need to file it as a resident since you live here more than 180 days.
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2008-4-27
(#4418863@0)
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Not necessary.
-kwirky(kwirky);
2008-4-27
(#4419484@0)
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We argued about this before. The 180-day rule apply before your emigrant rule.
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2008-4-27
(#4419515@0)
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我LP是1月份走的,可是当时没有告诉税务局,直到9月才通知,她是不是可以用emigrant报税呀(她在美国是报的non-resisdent)
-davfox(davfox);
2008-4-27
(#4419569@0)
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请问是CRA跟你说的“180-rule applies before emigrant rule"?CRA网站上的“Leaving Canada"可一句都没提180天。NR-73也没说居住超过180天就一定算是resident,NR-73只是根据你与加拿大的联系来判断你是不是resident。我也是07年7月初搬到美国的。我给CRA打过电话,告诉他们我是7月份离开的,在加拿大超过183天,CRA只是让我填NR-73和税表一起寄去。如果有180-day rule的话,CRA可以直接告诉我按resident填,为什么还让我先按emigrant填然后他们再根据NR-73决定?
-wmonkey(wj);
2008-4-27
{373}
(#4419653@0)
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#4385564@0
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2008-4-27
(#4419775@0)
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The 183 day rule applies to NON-RESIDENTS who subsequently spend 183 days in canada as NON-RESIDENTS and don't live in a treaty country.you are neither a deemed resident (govt employee working abroad) nor a factual resident (since you are living in US). The 183 day rule applies to NON-RESIDENTS who subsequently spend 183 days in canada as NON-RESIDENTS and don't live in a treaty country.
-kwirky(kwirky);
2008-4-27
{255}
(#4419832@0)
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回复到旧帖去了。看19条,20条是针对nonresident变resident的。leaving Canada 是factual resident,这条不apply
-usornot(下决心);
2008-4-27
(#4419863@0)
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Leaving Canada 是 emigrant,按照IT-221:“Factual Residence -- Leaving Canada“和T4131,Factual resident 是Candian abroad has residential ties in Canada. 没有residentail ties in Canada 的”leaving Canada“是emigrant.
-wmonkey(wj);
2008-4-28
(#4420260@0)
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t4056 "Emigrants and Income Tax 2007", pg. 9, example 2 and example 3.
-wmonkey(wj);
2008-4-28
{294}
(#4420276@0)
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You are absolutely right.
-kwirky(kwirky);
2008-4-28
(#4420737@0)
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我跟你情况差不多, 我已经按non-resisdence 报了美国这边的税, 可是加拿大这边却实在有些糊涂,不知道按那个tax package 报, 自己分析了一下, 好象还是要用residence of canada 来报吧, 不知道对不对, 如果用emigrant, 那么用那个tax package 呢?
-davfox(davfox);
2008-4-27
(#4420108@0)
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You should've use the full year resident choice for US tax return instead. You just donate a couple of thousands dollars to the IRS.
-kwirky(kwirky);
2008-4-28
(#4420774@0)
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是呀,当时不太明白,所以就报了,现在后悔也来不及了.
不过报加拿大的, 因为LG有学费可以transfer给我,所以可以基本免掉税,反正他以后在美国, 以后这个也用不上. 能告诉我我这种情况应该用那个package 保加拿大的税吗?
-davfox(davfox);
2008-4-28
(#4421424@0)
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谢谢各位的信息。明白多了。又打电话到CRA确认,那位agent也说基本肯定我们是non-resident for tax purpose。但是还要填那个NR73来最后确认。
-cc1234(moving);
2008-4-28
(#4421291@0)