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枫下茶话 / 社会 / 跟同事聊起这个家庭的不幸,同事说没有听说(她也住mississauga) 她说应该让更多的人知道,媒体介入;就像这里一些人建议的,我们应该给mp,相关媒体写信,一个case引起,不能再有类似的悲剧发生。即便只局限于我们说知道的一点经过实事,但是结果是确实的
-liuycc(影子);
2009-6-15
(#5343662@0)
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知道得越多,越感觉这中间的悲剧色彩unspeakable。投鼠忌器,我都不知道在给MPP的信里是否可以使用逝者的姓名。
-oldyou();
2009-6-15
(#5343701@0)
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我到现在也只知道她的网名,不过这个人存在过,这个事情发生过,如果他们引起重视,想要了解更多,一定能找得到
-liuycc(影子);
2009-6-16
(#5347588@0)
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她的大儿子四岁了,小的也快两岁。那么长时间里一个人带两个孩子,何曾威胁过他们的安全?CAS下结论的时候,有没有无视这一基本事实?
-oldyou();
2009-6-15
(#5344493@0)
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She could handle them in the past, doesn't mean she was not a threat to the baby when CAS worker made such decision. We didn't know her behavior when CAS worker decided to take away the baby.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-15
(#5344505@0)
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咋天跟朋友聊起这事, 她还认为这个CAS就是JERRY SRINGER那里的那种黑白准备的, 说是如果CAS里有一部分有中国文化, 了解中国人对孩子的情结的人会好一点----不过上来看了你的贴子, 发现里面如果有你这样的中国人也是白扯
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-6-15
(#5344549@0)
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So you think it is ok to give your kids whatever drug.
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-15
(#5344552@0)
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你在钻牛角, 你非要钻的话, 我可以说: 什么也比逼死人家妈妈强
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-6-15
(#5344559@0)
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我现在有点明白了,那些说 CAS is an evil 的人可能大部分都是因为孩子的事与直接或者间接与CAS打过交道的人。我们需要的是 the balanced information。我们需要考虑的是CAS在这件事到底做错了吗?我指的是法律上的。
-ellesmeer(明天可能是晴天);
2009-6-15
(#5344604@0)
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Why? If the mom killed the kid by given her drugs, she will commit suicide too. Then two deaths. Right now only one death.
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-15
(#5344615@0)
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她可以说你的推断建立在假设上而假设(小孩被亲母害死)永不会出现,你没什么可反驳的,因为这个假设永不能被证实了。此事件许多人表现的太情绪化。
-yusheng(拜月);
2009-6-15
(#5344623@0)
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事实上妈妈死了, 而现在有人在拼命推脱责任, 而且那么”PROFESSIONAL” 的工作除了死了一个人没人看到一点效果
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-6-15
(#5344641@0)
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I am not 拼命推脱责任. I have no vested interested on CAS. I just 拼命 look for the truth for the family.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-15
(#5344841@0)
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嘿. 小伙子. 你说这种话不怕报应吗?
-mamimami(mamimami);
2009-6-15
(#5344649@0)
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他这样一假设, 大家就都死了, 他也好意思……这就是CAS的水平吗?如果以这种假设来行动, 说它是EVIL真没什么不准确
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-6-15
(#5344653@0)
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Does Smartiecat represent CAS? Do I represent CAS? All I suggested was not to jump to conclusion!
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-15
(#5344844@0)
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I see no wrongdoing by CAS. CAS is set up to protect the children only. Clearly this mom is harming the children (but believing her kids are sick and wanna give her drugs).CAS does not need to care about the mom since this agency is not designed to do so. It is an agency which set up just to protect the kids.
What happened was tragic but CAS did the right thing.
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-15
{196}
(#5344792@0)
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And CAS already made a medical appointment for the mother but somehow she went to England instead.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-15
(#5344863@0)
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能做出这样的假设说明你也不同程度地有些问题哦.
-7755(daysbeingwithmom);
2009-6-16
(#5345924@0)
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En !
-babyface(★春歌醉★春花飞★);
2009-6-15
(#5344744@0)
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作为中国人,我不希望自己被加拿大政府特殊对待,不管是好意还是歹意。我觉得如果有证据cas对中国家庭特别的严厉,可以说一说;如果要求cas按照所谓中国国情对中国家庭从宽,假如cas真的这么做了,反而是一种歧视。
-baalinca(三碗不过冈十点不上网);
2009-6-15
(#5344706@0)
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对待一个病人是很细微的事情, 这时候也扯上”平等”, 那只好看她跳楼了
-mickeyh(mickey);
2009-6-15
(#5344760@0)
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如果cas对中国家庭采用宽松一点的标准,这本身未必是好事。就算是好事是特权,你要求了这个特权,就不能拒绝别人要求特权,没有谁希望看到其他人种在加拿大有自己的特权的。
-baalinca(三碗不过冈十点不上网);
2009-6-15
(#5344797@0)
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So you do admit that she is sick.
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-15
(#5344798@0)
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+1
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-15
(#5344846@0)
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if 中国文化 includes making judgement without undertsand the full picture, then you are quite right, I would not bring in this part of 中国文化 into any organization.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-15
{1425}
(#5344837@0)
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BTW, CAS has Chinese workers as well. My friend's daugther told her teacher that her mother punished her with a stick.A Chinese CAS worker visited her right at night. My friend was OK; they spend the whole evening talking about education, child discipline and Canadian value.
The Chinese CAS worker said whenever there was children abuse report about Asian, they always try to send someone with similar culture to investigate unless it is emergency.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-15
{337}
(#5344860@0)
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36个小时,她不眠不喝,带着小孩到5间医院/诊所歇斯底里的,爸爸又不闻不问,如果CAS不行动,他们真的失职。
-ontariocas(CAS);
2009-6-15
(#5344544@0)
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这位大大,请问下,如果打匿名电话给CAS报料,被证实是假的,CAS有啥处罚?如果对方要求CAS提供电话信息以找报料人,CAS是否配合?
-ignoreme(别当真);
2009-6-15
(#5344555@0)
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唉, 很复杂, 几乎无解. 还是忍不住要说, 这个爸爸没有做到最好. 能让她听进去的只能是他了吧? 但是CAS一直追到英国也有点过分. 这个案子很多信息是一点一点透露出来的, 唉, 不多说了, 坚决不说了.
-dusk(~小桥流水~);
2009-6-15
(#5344585@0)
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"36个小时,她不眠不喝,带着小孩到5间医院/诊所歇斯底里的" 。谁信谁傻。
-skywriting(天书);
2009-6-15
(#5344702@0)
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Well clearly the doctor in ER thinks she has problems. And that was why they notified CAS.
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-15
(#5344799@0)
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Well, my daugther hand a fever over 104 degree and I didn't sleep for 48 hours. I believe any mother could do it if she believed her baby was critical ill. Ask any mother who have a baby!
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-15
(#5344870@0)
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If this is true then it would be terrible! What a poor mother! Where did you find this piece of information?
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-15
(#5344848@0)
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有你们CAS在.爸爸能干啥?难道主动向你们报告?难道用家庭暴力?少指责别人了.CAS就没有责任了吗? CAS在社会上有这么恶劣的IMAGE.从大的角度看,有没有责任呢? CAS能不能做得更人性化呢?CAS 的权力和费用又是哪里来的呢?
-iwantcar_majia(iwantcar);
2009-6-16
{31}
(#5345810@0)
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some answers.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
{974}
(#5345889@0)
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Even from the worst picture you presented here, I don't see the presence of the mother pose any risk to the child. Directing the blame to the poor father at this moment is even more despicable.
-oldyou();
2009-6-16
(#5345926@0)
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You haven't answered this yet. So you think it is ok to give whatever drugs to a baby at that age?
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-16
(#5346333@0)
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Neither I nor the victim's family has the legal obligation to answer any questions from the public. It was CAS who should have done in the first place, meanwhile it's also their responsibilities to respect the victim's privacy.
-oldyou();
2009-6-16
(#5347468@0)
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不可否认,"你没有看出来RISK"和"没有RISK"是两回事。CAS说看出了RISK和"有RISK"也是两回事。由于各种原因,我们有时侯只能尽可能接近事实真相,而没办法完全还原真相。你们有分歧,又要寻求一个判断的话,需要仲裁。设想一下,在仲裁者面前,你们各自提出支持自己看法的事实根据. CAS和你各有哪些呢?
-kittywhy(kittywhy);
2009-6-16
{80}
(#5346811@0)
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"她依然用流鼻血就是肺部出血等原因与对方争辩,并且情绪有些激动" We don't know how emotion she was. Since none of us was present and unless the victim's family can find other witness.Judge may choose to believe the professional CAS worker. It is like if you go to court to defend yourself with a police officer on a traffic ticket; unless you have solid evidence, the judge would be more incline to believe evidence presented by a professional law enforcement officer.
And if CAS lawyer come to Rolia to collect evidence, they would be able to find more information that is favor the CAS worker's decision.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
{428}
(#5346853@0)
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Whatever emotion she had the the time, they are solely outrages toward the ailing healthcare system and CAS, which had no ground that the emotion was going to turn against the child who she had been taken care of for years.It's more and more likely the CAS worker and his/her supervisor took away the child in the same emotional way, or even worst, as a revenge, a way of showing their overwhelming power. Remember, they are the same human beings as anyone of us.
-oldyou();
2009-6-16
{242}
(#5347456@0)
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I guess we may have another difference. I know a few people who had mental illness before. They were all in and out of hospital a few times and one of them who is a very close relative was admitted to hospital Involuntarily.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
{1262}
(#5347577@0)
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I'm 100% sure the poor mom will recover from her situational depression should CAS haven't taken her infant at the first engagement. That's why I felt so strongly that CAS contributed to her death.
-oldyou();
2009-6-16
(#5348002@0)
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I am not challenging your assumption. But if you were the CAS worker and based on your professional training, you were very sure that the mother was really out of control and might hurt her baby? What were you going to do?All of my friends who had mental problem, are still taking medicine but they are under control, i.e. I don't mind to go out to have a drink with them anytime.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
{159}
(#5348077@0)
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你现在心里是不是很内疚?估计那些直接参与的人,这辈子心理不能平静了。
-pigkiller(早起的虫子);
2009-6-16
(#5346393@0)
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我4月在ROLIA 上看过BLUELOVE 的帖子,当时曾想给点建议,但在怀疑,犹豫和懒散之中,悲剧这么快就发生了,有点为自己的旁观和冷血内疚.经历过婚姻失败和情绪失控等的痛苦.希望把我的故事写出来,鼓励所有的妈妈们要坚强和快乐的生活.只有妈妈快乐,孩子才会快乐!
-goodmom(how can be a goodmom);
2009-6-16
{2724}
(#5347440@0)
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人生真的不易啊,真佩服你。
-copperbean(豆泡果 之 铜豌豆);
2009-6-16
(#5347465@0)
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是个坚强的妈妈,值得尊重
-kingsw(Steven);
2009-6-16
(#5347481@0)
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Same story. It's called situational depression. Difference was, you got a nice worker, and the victim might got a rough one.
-oldyou();
2009-6-16
(#5347492@0)
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you selective blind. there was another potential difference: she was she, the other was the other. two different people. even given same worker, outcome could be different.
-win(秋天的菠菜);
2009-6-16
(#5347515@0)
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I'm. I'm blind to any wrong doings to the child's father and the dead. I'm sharpening my eyes in reviewing any actions taken by CAS in this tragedy. I think everyone who has compassion and understands what a government meansin this country should take the same position of selective blindness.
-oldyou();
2009-6-16
{69}
(#5348013@0)
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I greatly appreciate to see people like you in our community to have an eagle eye (very sharp) on organizations like CAS, police force. You would be the reason that I am comfortable with these organization.Please continue the hard work. I am not going to do anymore until I have a consent from the father.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
{100}
(#5348087@0)
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it may not be the CAS worker. The credit should go to goodmom; she was able to control her emotion. If she loss control of her emotion, even her CAS worker would have to take her children away; probably gave the custody to her ex until she recoers.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
(#5347631@0)
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Thank for all the comments.The credit should go to my parents(expecially my mother),my two lovely boys, all my friends and all the social workers who gave me help.
-goodmom(how can be a goodmom);
2009-6-16
(#5347745@0)
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I see light and feel warm in our community. Thank for sharing your story with us. If you need help in near or remote future, please don't hestiate to drop a note on Rolia or PM me.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
(#5348131@0)
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Thanks! I will contact you, if I need help.
-goodmom(how can be a goodmom);
2009-6-16
(#5348268@0)
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solute
-win(秋天的菠菜);
2009-6-16
(#5347510@0)
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妈妈快乐,孩子才会快乐! I have been waiting for someone like you to come up to tell you story! Well done! You helped yourself and your children by positively facing the problems. You are a very BRAVE woman! I solute you as well!!
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
(#5347610@0)
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能意识到自己的问题,并能积极主动面对和改变,很不容易。你说得对,妈妈快乐坚强,才能带给孩子最大的快乐
-liuycc(影子);
2009-6-16
(#5347638@0)
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Does anyone know to post this story as a new discussion thread. I think it should be on its own, instead of hiding inside another thread. A very positive story that more people shoudl read! Can system admin do it?
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
(#5347643@0)
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要求斑竹提炼出来加精。
-copperbean(豆泡果 之 铜豌豆);
2009-6-16
(#5347680@0)
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must be my poor Chinese. What is 斑竹? and what is 加精?
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
(#5347698@0)
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poor me:) 斑竹 = 版主,加精 = 设成精华。
-copperbean(豆泡果 之 铜豌豆);
2009-6-16
(#5347702@0)
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thanks!
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
(#5347706@0)
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agree+1
-liuycc(影子);
2009-6-16
(#5347703@0)
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how can we ask 斑竹 to do it?
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
(#5347719@0)
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not sure, but always he/she notices this kind of really nice post, and give it "marks"
-liuycc(影子);
2009-6-16
(#5347730@0)
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咱们在这里说的斑竹都应该看到(舆论监督是ta的职责之一),等着吧。
-copperbean(豆泡果 之 铜豌豆);
2009-6-16
(#5347734@0)
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That's why he hangs around here. I'm glad to see that he's bothered with his Liang Xin but sad to see he's still trying to intimidate the victim's family by disbursing their privacy.
-oldyou();
2009-6-16
(#5347461@0)
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what is Liang Xin ?
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
(#5347637@0)
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良心
-ignoreme(别当真);
2009-6-16
(#5347649@0)
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thanks.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
(#5347695@0)
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每个case肯定都有它的特殊性和普遍性,涉及到具体细节,除了当事人,恐怕外人都不能了解的很仔细。但是我觉得这里有些人说得对,因为这一个悲剧,不希望这类事件再发生,如果每个人都能做到自己力所能及的,尽管路漫漫,可是一定会有所改变和结果
-liuycc(影子);
2009-6-16
(#5347569@0)
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就大家普遍concern的问题,由这个事件所引发的担心和讨论,给各区议员或者相关人士something in writing? 今天看到另外一个坐加航起诉的事情,更感觉到既然这个国家宣扬民主法制,那么我们也走法制渠道,起诉没权利,陈述我们的concern总可以吧?谁英语好,有样本可以参考?
-liuycc(影子);
2009-6-16
(#5347582@0)
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can you please post the link.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
(#5347639@0)
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sorry, which link? u mean the one that sued AC, here it is
-liuycc(影子);
2009-6-16
(#5347662@0)
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坐加航起诉的事情
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
(#5347672@0)
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看到了么?
-liuycc(影子);
2009-6-16
(#5347686@0)
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yeah, thanks again.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
(#5347699@0)
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thanks.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-16
(#5347688@0)