This topic has been archived. It cannot be replied.
-
枫下茶话 / 社会 / 这篇文章介绍有关CAS的情况,还有死亡传闻的事实
-cruiser99(Cruiser);
2009-6-19
{10266}
(#5355366@0)
-
华裔寄养家庭难求 - it is up to us now!
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355427@0)
-
Cruiser, 谢谢你,一篇好好的文章, 不过你忘了一个华人对CAS误区 – CAS没有监管的。希望你可以介绍监管CAS不同系统,有五到六个。
-ontariocas(CAS);
2009-6-19
(#5355595@0)
-
不是误区。如果是误区的话,也仅仅是误区之一。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355624@0)
-
篇幅原因,已经够长了。希望大家先对CAS有一个基本概念,如何应对有所了解。不是盲目恐慌或者敌视。
-cruiser99(Cruiser);
2009-6-19
(#5355669@0)
-
对任何不受监督的,不透明的国家机器,老百姓肯定是恐慌和敌视。人类几千年的历史表明,国家机器绝大多数时候是普通人的敌人!
-steve888(Steve曾经曰过);
2009-6-19
(#5355780@0)
-
so you should not 恐慌和敌视 CAS because it is 受监督的 and 透明.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355806@0)
-
您倒说说CAS哪儿受第三方监督来着?哪儿透明了?连死小孩的详细报告都没有,更别说其他统计数据了。补贴费用,经费,工资等等数据都是一抹黑。
-steve888(Steve曾经曰过);
2009-6-19
(#5355846@0)
-
They would not comment on individual case to media but the victim's family can ask for an inquiry and every year, an independent committe would review every single dead children. Here is the report for 2007.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355889@0)
-
And it is under the supervision of Minister of Childen.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355898@0)
-
In addition to the reviews conducted by the Ministry,other mechanisms in place are the Office of Ontario’s Auditor General, the Office of the Provincial Advocate for Children and Youth, the Child and Family Service Review Board, along with the Ombudsman, which has oversight of the CFSRB, and the Family Court System.
These are the formal supervision bodies, and I haven't counted the informal one, e.g. your MPP, newspaper, TV.....
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
{384}
(#5355916@0)
-
不是盲目恐慌或者敌视,而是鄙视!
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355782@0)
-
Even if Toronto Cas's managerment said they pay more than $1500+ to foster family for each foster kid. Every single foster kid's Child Tax Benefit goes to CAS.
-analyst1(Justice);
2009-6-19
{564}
(#5355707@0)
-
那个补助是给孩子的,不是给寄养家长的,所以她说的和你说的不矛盾
-cruiser99(Cruiser);
2009-6-19
(#5355723@0)
-
But 孩子 even can not get a single penny, even can not have enough food and cloth. Moneies said for children are grabbed by CAS and foster parents.If you read General Auditor of Ontarion's offical reports, you will know how CASs are corrupt. Over most of scandles in that report are about Toronto CAS.
-analyst1(Justice);
2009-6-19
{155}
(#5355991@0)
-
do you mind to attach the report? I like to read it.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5356008@0)
-
Here is the link:
-analyst1(Justice);
2009-6-19
(#5356202@0)
-
That was terrible! Fortunately, we have control from auditor general so that we could discover. And this is why I suggested that we should have policy, i.e. limit how much moeny they can spent.I hope auditor general has followed up and make sure CAS has corrected their mistakes.
But thank you for pointint to others that CAS does have supervision.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
{158}
(#5356233@0)
-
Auditor General had another similar report at the following year that reported the CASs still had a lot problems. Then CASs increased their staff's salaries and benefits a lot.Auditor General is only incharge for checking their spendings, they can not supervise CASs works. Please do not mislead people here. I can tell that you are a CAS undercover. I would like to remind you: 1) Do not forget conscience. 2) Do not forget you are Chinese. 3) Do not forget you have black eyes and hair, have yellow skin.
-analyst1(Justice);
2009-6-19
{330}
(#5356305@0)
-
一面之词, 不看也罢. 其实加拿大历史上每个时间都有这样的政府办的组织, 把小孩从父母身边带走, 过上几十年等孩子都老了, 再由政府出面道歉. 就象对待东正教徒, 印第安小孩等等.
-gitar(Hannah's Fan);
2009-6-19
(#5355549@0)
-
We call people like you self-centered, stubborn, cannot accept criticism. These are bad qualities. Need to be open minded and willing to listen.
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-19
(#5355604@0)
-
跟错地方了吧?你是回LZ的贴吧?
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355617@0)
-
It's the right place. And someone agree with me. #5355737@0
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-19
(#5355756@0)
-
看不出我说的是反话么? "people like you self-centered, stubborn" (#5355721@0)
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355769@0)
-
如果真能道歉,也算监督机制在起作用
-cruiser99(Cruiser);
2009-6-19
(#5355663@0)
-
如果有被很好的监管,就不会仅仅是道歉了。你杀了人仅仅是道个歉就能逃脱责任了么?
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355731@0)
-
CAS道歉不是第一次,也不是最后一次的,其实CAS是比较善于道歉了勇于道歉的。只是道歉归道歉,以后有了什么事情,还是按照他们的规章办理,嘿嘿
-tiara(松鼠回来啦);
2009-6-19
(#5355732@0)
-
松鼠今天表现不错。奖励一下。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355793@0)
-
so you think a government organization or government sponsoured organization should not 按照他们的规章办理We all make mistakes. However, CAS's power is so huge and we don't want them misuse their power. This is why our legislator has setup so many policies and procedures to follow. Again, our legislators are also normal people; so even their policies are not perfect. This is why we should also monitor CAS and if we know something wrong about CAS and its policies, we should report to our MPP.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
{396}
(#5355828@0)
-
你愿意看到所有的政府服务机关、商业客服都“照章办事” (work-to-rule)?
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355933@0)
-
Can you please give me an answer to my question first? rather than asking a new question.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355970@0)
-
上面不是不是疑问句,而是反问句。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5356006@0)
-
If I can only have either yes or no. I would choose Yes. I prefer those organization to follow their policies set by our legislator. And I am aware the problems that would come with it.But I also see the problem if there is not policy set for those organization. Did you read the recent news about eHealth? Do you like the idea that someone with our tax payer money and great power to do anything they want?
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
{224}
(#5356066@0)
-
TW, how about you?
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5356068@0)
-
这话非常有意思。我以为两面的词都听才可能避免偏见片面。你不听这一面的词,因为是一面之词。是不是说只听那一面的词呢?那算不算一面之词?还是说你两面都不听,关起门来自说自话,听自己的词?
-kittywhy(kittywhy);
2009-6-19
(#5355737@0)
-
嘿嘿, 你的推理能力很强啊. 当今信息时代, 网络和报纸上东西太多了, 不加筛选都看的话, 是不可能的. 当然得选精辟全面客观公允的文章来看.
-gitar(Hannah's Fan);
2009-6-19
(#5357853@0)
-
洋人在教育上,真是聪明,让人拍案叫绝!如果哪位有兴趣的话,可以跟踪一下当年被带走的孩子及他们的下一代是如何生活的。我相信他们是生活在现代文明之中。反观中国政府在西藏问题上真是笨呐!五十年前要是把藏民的孩子集中起来接受现代教育,两三代受过现代教育的人,会有几个去做喇嘛的?可惜呀!
以前能做的事,现在都行不通了。洋人的现任只要讲一个SORRY.俺们的现任头别提有多大!
-4_fun(寻开心: 誓别三推);
2009-6-29
{181}
(#5382057@0)
-
CAS的问题不仅仅是因为其权利太大,而是其在使用这个权利的过程中没有监管,并且随意性太大。被执行者根本没有足够的机会、渠道来保护自己的合法权益,尤其当执行者和被执行者之间存在文化背景的冲突,或者碰到变态的执行者时。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355610@0)
-
"使用这个权利的过程中没有监管", can someone refer this complain to CAS?
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355676@0)
-
REFER 给CAS?它会回答说,他们从来是有监管的,嘿嘿。每次看到你的建议,都觉得很可爱
-tiara(松鼠回来啦);
2009-6-19
(#5355724@0)
-
I tried to answer the same question more than 10 times and the same question still come up; so I guess it may be time to ask CAS to answer this question.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355771@0)
-
儿童死亡案例应该全面介绍,仅仅拿出来一个没有代表性的重病婴儿,来替CAS辩解,有误导之嫌。
-szs11(Hedge);
2009-6-19
(#5355625@0)
-
安省副总验尸官总结的,这些死亡与CAS介入没有太大关联。比如婴儿睡眠环境差窒息而死,洗澡危险致死和青少年自杀。但是这些案子CAS一旦介入后,死亡都算在他们的范围。如果要反驳的话,也需要事实证据,有没有家人投诉呢?我也想知道
-cruiser99(Cruiser);
2009-6-19
(#5355657@0)
-
每个死亡个案有警察调查,CAS要在24小时通知MINISTRY和验尸官(PAEDIATRIC DEATH REVIEW COMMITTEE), 提交报告, 再在五天内, 14天内, 30天内, 90天内提供进度报告, PDRC最后提交警察,MINISTRY,和CAS 他们的结论。
-ontariocas(CAS);
2009-6-19
(#5355748@0)
-
如果CAS错了,PDRC会强制CAS改善,父母也可以法律起诉CAS,PDRC 也会在他们的每年报告评论CAS的错误。前线CAS员工可能一生也没看过处理过死亡事故,儿童死亡一般是由高级官员处理的。
-ontariocas(CAS);
2009-6-19
(#5355751@0)
-
问个问题,你好象提到CAS带走一个孩子,政府给87。如果只是家访,上门沟通,上门协助,政府给不给钱?是按次数给,还是有个固定的BUDGET。谢谢。
-kittywhy(kittywhy);
2009-6-19
(#5355768@0)
-
每月5.5个小时,一个员工一个月工作144个小时,要看24个案子才可平衡收入。每小时政府付员工工资中位数,30元以内吧。不要忘记还有OVERHEAD COST。
-ontariocas(CAS);
2009-6-19
(#5355837@0)
-
所以没事也要找点事情出来,好算工作量拿钱。是吧?
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355850@0)
-
Apart from Minister of Children,other mechanisms in place are the Office of Ontario’s Auditor General, the Office of the Provincial Advocate for Children and Youth, the Child and Family Service Review Board, along with the Ombudsman, which has oversight of the CFSRB, and the Family Court System.
These are the formal supervision bodies, and I haven't counted the informal one, e.g. your MPP, newspaper, TV.....
So if you have any evidence, please show it to any above organization.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
{459}
(#5356019@0)
-
30元以内吧? You got less than what Toronto city pay for our garbage collector?
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355859@0)
-
thanks. 谢谢。就是说,每月每个CASE5.5个小时。有奖励机制?BASED ON什么?一般意义上说,你们工作会超过或不够5.5小时吗? 不管什么情况,政府就是按144小时给钱吗?
-kittywhy(kittywhy);
2009-6-19
(#5355881@0)
-
没有奖励机制,工资+BENEFITS后便什么也没有。5.5小时一般不够,这5.5小时包见面,开车, 写报告,上法院,带小孩看病等等,还有员工生理需要, 例如吃饭上大小号。
-ontariocas(CAS);
2009-6-19
(#5356153@0)
-
and your volunteer work to explain the operation and policies of CAS. Greatly appreciate!
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5356189@0)
-
But the Auditor General reported that a worker's got $21000+ overtime payment a year. Even if no case, a worker's salary+benefits>$70000 per year. You can find information about cas worker salaries at the Employment section at www.castoronto.ca.
-analyst1(Justice);
2009-6-19
(#5356278@0)
-
30 * 144 * 12 = $52,000, so $18,000 is the benefit, i.e. about 35% of base salary. Since you are very good at google, can you please find out if benefit equivalent to 35% of base salary reasonable.Mind you, out auto union memebers' benefit is about 100% of their base salary.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
{79}
(#5356295@0)
-
I have tried to post the link here but it seems Toronto CAS's web site is hacked now.
-analyst1(Justice);
2009-6-19
(#5356441@0)
-
we hacked it? how?
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5356521@0)
-
in management budget planning, overhead, i.e. benefits plus others equals to 18% of salary.
-ontariocas(CAS);
2009-6-19
(#5356306@0)
-
$30 is the median wage per hour. Workers make from 40K to 70K, depending on job nature and experience.
-ontariocas(CAS);
2009-6-19
(#5356312@0)
-
Supervisors make 75 to 95K
-ontariocas(CAS);
2009-6-19
(#5356317@0)
-
Managers make 100K+.
-ontariocas(CAS);
2009-6-19
(#5356321@0)
-
如果人在CAS手上,“婴儿睡眠环境差窒息而死,洗澡危险致死“,这些CAS不是应该负直接责任? 就是”青少年自杀”的情况,CAS也是难脱干系的。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355843@0)
-
Good point! "如果人在CAS手上", do you know how many children who were dead, were in the custody of CAS?
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355928@0)
-
CAS收走以后扔给指定寄养家庭的也算哦。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355955@0)
-
Of course, it counts. It is their responsibility to find the right foster family. So how many in total that were in the custody of CAS and in the foster home were died in 2007?
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355961@0)
-
I'm wondering why hospital has the highest death rate...
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-19
(#5355672@0)
-
and emergency and intensive care unit within hospital are even higher.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355681@0)
-
LS两位,你们的意思是说,CAS是专门收养残疾、重病儿童的福利院?不要偷换概念好不好。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355714@0)
-
I am suggesting that there may be good reason for higher mortality rate. CAS does not seize normal children from normal family. Most children who are in the custody of CAS had been seriously abused.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355745@0)
-
事实胜于雄辩!关于此次CAS大讨论的起因事件,孩子就是很健康的。再一次很严肃的警告你们,不要把假设当作事实来作你们的论据。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355757@0)
-
The mom is clearly sick and you are willing to ignore that fact.
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-19
(#5355767@0)
-
事件中孩子父母双全,父亲很健康,也有能力抚养和保护孩子。即使母亲有一点疾病,也并没有对孩子造成伤害。是你在忽略这个事实!
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355778@0)
-
She wants to give her kids drugs when her kids have no sickness. I wanna kill someone but I don't have a knife on hand doesn't mean that I'm not dangerous. why is it so hard to see.
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-19
(#5355789@0)
-
因为主观上人们不相信母亲会杀死自己的孩子。还是文化问题。西方人认为母亲不想杀死自己的孩子,并不代表她客观上不去这么做,中国人认为只要我爱孩子,我所做的一切就无可厚非。
-yusheng(拜月);
2009-6-19
(#5355814@0)
-
this is the behavior of a normal mother. However, if a mother who has serious mental health issue, then it is a total different story. I hope CAS can disclose how many children was killed by their own parents.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355934@0)
-
这个问题我不想再多说了。 #5337470@0 #5337603@0。你有权因为你的无知而假设,但你没有权利因为你的假设而侵犯到别人。跟何况,此次事件的关键之处在于,健康的孩子还有一个健康并且有能力保护他们的父亲。CAS的行为激化了问题,而不是解决了问题。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355820@0)
-
Geez. Why do we need doctor to prescribe drugs in Canada? What a waste of money since you know so well about your own health. Why do we put billions into the system to prevent that. Why do we need doctors?
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-19
(#5355835@0)
-
Gee什么Gee?你问那些问题只能说明你很无知。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355892@0)
-
#5355932@0
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-19
(#5355947@0)
-
(#5356083@0)
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5356084@0)
-
CAS is the offical 法律的执行机构 to protect children.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5356092@0)
-
但不是official的机构可以决定是否擅自使用处方药了吧?你这不是在自己打自己嘴巴么?
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5356096@0)
-
if 擅自使用处方药 is related to children, then CAS would be involved.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5356104@0)
-
CAS不分情况任意而为,并且不受约束,受害人无权保护自己的正当权利,这就是问题。只要有孩子的家庭,什么事可以说跟孩子没关系了?CAS都可以随便介入?
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5356112@0)
-
In this case they did the right thing since the mom is clearly intend to break the law.
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-19
(#5356126@0)
-
你也承认只是“intend to break the law” 而事实没有“break the law”。更何况孩子是有父亲的,你为什么要否认这个事实?
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5356152@0)
-
if you post a message to find someone to kill someone and I report this message to police. Do you think the police would say "let's wait until he really do it"And do you remember just couple weeks ago, a Chinese children suggested he wanted to kill some of his classmate. He only suggested and where is he now?
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
{152}
(#5356172@0)
-
BTW, why didn't the mother call the father when CAS seized their baby?
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5356194@0)
-
Man, you need more common sense on how the law works. It made me laugh.
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-19
(#5356218@0)
-
希望你的孩子被CAS带走的时候,你也笑得出来。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5356234@0)
-
If I am mentally ill and may hurt my children and wife. I wish they can lock me out but if there is no law to lock me out, then I really don't mind to take the kids away from me.I would thank CAS when I recover. I would never, never want to hurt my kids. And if I find out after I recover that I kill my kids. I don't think I would ever able to recover.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
{179}
(#5356243@0)
-
不要给自己加条件嘛。你mentally ill 的时候能知道自己 ill 啦?
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5356261@0)
-
首先,我非常反对乱用药,但是作为父母,当小孩生病到医院怎么看都没好,你会怎么做?你会看着孩子什么事都不做,病急乱投医,看看“亲亲宝贝:,多少人在找什么中药啊什么的。CAS 明显知道那个母亲不是蓄意要害孩子,而且那个父亲非常正常,为什么不能跟她好好解释,而是把孩子强行带走?为什么不是强制那个妈妈进行定期心理咨询,不觉那个场面对两个小孩都是很大的伤害嘛?对小孩以后行为会不会有潜在影响呢?
-biru(比如);
2009-6-28
{134}
(#5380981@0)
-
CAS不分情况任意而为,并且不受约束. No, CAS is supervised by Minister of Children and
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5356183@0)
-
supervised 的结果就是最后顶多换来一个sorry。(#5355793@0) 这样的supervise,等于没有。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5356239@0)
-
How do you know there is only sorry if they were wrong. Have you followed the recent event of eHealth? They can lost their jobs or even worse. This is another example that there are supervision and monitor.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5356248@0)
-
in recent event of eHealth, they simply lost their jobs? what's even worse?
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5356252@0)
-
这件事上,就是一个sorry我都没看到。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5356265@0)
-
They did nothing wrong. Why apologize?
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-19
(#5356302@0)
-
Even doctor is not enough, we have pharmacist to look over doctor's shoulder to make sure proper medicine is used.I got a few time that my pharmacist actually called me to my doctor office to argue for another drug.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
{101}
(#5355946@0)
-
你不用和这个人辩了,他认定他的观点后就不会再仔细看别人的观点了,从头到尾看看他写的,主观,不讲道理,忽略事实。。。。别和他浪费口水。我觉得最好的办法就是让那些人起诉CAS然后看能否赢官司,赢不了的话,估计他们还要起诉法官,起诉法律程序,最后起诉加拿大政府。。。。
-volley(悠悠);
2009-6-19
{127}
(#5356316@0)
-
"CAS的行为激化了问题", 问一句,这个问题是指的什么?激化了什么问题?妈妈的精神状况?"而不是解决了问题" , 这个问题是指的什么?
-kittywhy(kittywhy);
2009-6-19
(#5355860@0)
-
假如你对此次事件不是很清楚的话,请先去做点功课,翻翻旧帖或查看一下旧闻。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355900@0)
-
那么多贴子,一个事件不同的人有不同的解读。没有必要去找一个共识。我只是想问,你说的问题是什么。不想回答不勉强。嘿嘿.
-kittywhy(kittywhy);
2009-6-19
(#5355981@0)
-
(#5355610@0)
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5356103@0)
-
你所强调的有几点使你在法官面前处于劣势(假如你代表母亲)1,你强调孩子是健康的,这正说明母亲给孩子吃药是绝对错误的行为,2,你强调母亲没有精神方面的疾病,更说明她蓄意要加害孩子,3,拿药物过期不当回事,甚至给孩子吃,更说明孩子需要保护。因为药检局有大量事实证明你说的不是真的。
-yusheng(拜月);
2009-6-19
{98}
(#5355864@0)
-
我有强调那些么?我强调的是:“此次事件的关键之处在于,健康的孩子还有一个健康并且有能力保护他们的父亲。CAS的行为激化了问题,而不是解决了问题。 ” 母亲有精神问题我没有否认,但她的行为不至于要CAS带走孩子。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355888@0)
-
rather CAS has any wrong doing is up to the judge to decide if the family decide to take it up to the court. And eveyone on Rolia can have their own judgement.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355952@0)
-
说个题外话,不牵涉你和另一位网友的争论.那是有些过期药(看具体成分)的确可以吃.我家人在大药厂工作.同时邻居是北京著名医院主治大夫,其父亲多年瘫痪在床,多次确认有些抗菌素类西药和OTC过期的确可以服用.但别说我为此也有精神问题啊.
-sku(NOBE);
2009-6-19
(#5355918@0)
-
I hope you know this is Canada. There are laws governing how precription drugs should be used. What the mom did was clearly in violation of the law and CAS will not hestitate to take the kids away if they found out the intention of the mom.We are not living in China anymore.
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-19
{35}
(#5355932@0)
-
And if there is a legal action against CAS, the CAS lawyer would be more than happy to read the post on Rolia from the mother.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355977@0)
-
其实我觉得这事说到底,就是一个文化和因此带来的习惯上的巨大差异。移民总是用原居住地的行为习惯来判断对方(当地的法律,风俗,习惯),孩子病了,多看几家医院,给孩子自行用药,在中国是多么普遍平常的事,许多人想不通为什么连这个也被争论。
-yusheng(拜月);
2009-6-19
(#5355979@0)
-
如果你觉得犯法了,那有法律的执行机构会介入,而不应该是CAS。
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5356083@0)
-
CAS is the offical 法律的执行机构 to protect children. -hkchan(*);
-jeffrey815(Smartiecat);
2009-6-19
(#5356129@0)
-
(#5356096@0)
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5356148@0)
-
过期药不能吃,有些药过期导致药物失效,会耽搁病情。有些药物长期存放,化学物质会变化产生毒素。药物的有效期是应该严格遵守的规范。
-kingsw(Steven);
2009-6-19
(#5355943@0)
-
对, 我完全同意啊. 如果不懂药理的非专业人员, 当然是不建议吃过期药. 我只是从专业人员转述而已. 据我得知的情况就是某些抗菌素类药(西药),OTC感冒药(本来就是缓释病情的作用). 但我不是在此推荐别人吃.只是知道一些情况而已
-sku(NOBE);
2009-6-19
(#5355948@0)
-
只是补充一下,以免有人误会,觉得过期药是可以可以吃的,特定的条件需要有专业知识的支持。
-kingsw(Steven);
2009-6-19
(#5355962@0)
-
没错,是这个意思,如果我前贴有误导各位的地方,还请原谅.
-sku(NOBE);
2009-6-19
(#5355975@0)
-
我相信你,但法官不会相信你。即使在中国的法院,要让他们相信也不能这么草率。有一点两边都一样的,判决的基础不能凭单个医生的话,而是要大量研究数据来支持,才能服众。
-yusheng(拜月);
2009-6-19
(#5355957@0)
-
是的是的,如果搞到法庭上的话,给人服用过期药并直接导致结果的人必然要负全责,这毫无疑问.我邻居家人是做药品分析的,因为他们对药品成份非常了解,所以才敢这么做.
-sku(NOBE);
2009-6-19
(#5355960@0)
-
The fact is that both Paediatric Death Review Committee & Death Under 5 Committee concluded CAS has NO responsibility of the 91 deah children in 2007. You can read their independent report.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355784@0)
-
你最好翻译过来,上次也有人转过来不过是作为反面例证的。很多人看了死了多少人,就不再往下看原因了,所以引来引去,谁也不知道里面说的啥。
-cruiser99(Cruiser);
2009-6-19
(#5355821@0)
-
My Chinese is terrbile, sorry can't help you to translate. But the reply from Ontario CAS Executive Director is shorter, hope people can read it. But I know people would still say it was bias.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355959@0)
-
I found an independent summary from Ontario News Room - The involvement of a Children's Aid Society did not appear to be a factor in the majority of child deaths.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
{135}
(#5356051@0)
-
是这样的,CAS内的小孩大约20%有残疾,50%有ADHD,一半TEENAGER有行为问题。有的家长生了个残疾婴儿便下放这个责任给CAS。
-ontariocas(CAS);
2009-6-19
(#5355795@0)
-
请CAS的员工来谈CAS,客观度可想而知。除非请对CAS了解的第三PARTY从客观的中立的立场去分析CAS的得失,提出有力证据,读者会比较信服,嘿嘿。
-tiara(松鼠回来啦);
2009-6-19
(#5355718@0)
-
可是怎么让公众觉得thirdparty就客观公正了?如果他们说的不入耳(不是我的观点),我照样可以觉得他们或是被愚弄了,或是狼狈为歼了。
-yusheng(拜月);
2009-6-19
(#5355739@0)
-
我们的目的是了解他们的工作要求和流程、规定,有问题直接问他们不是更好呢?目的不是评论他们,评论当然请第三方。
-cruiser99(Cruiser);
2009-6-19
(#5355741@0)
-
同意,对于死亡率的解释,不能令人信服。光指出CAS接受小孩本身状况不好,不能解释除病死、自然死亡以外,为什么自杀和事故的比率如此高,还有那么多例无法甄别死因的,也很怀疑。
-grainsw(两只小猪);
2009-6-19
(#5355744@0)
-
I don't have the figure in my head, but out of the 91 dead children, most of them still lived with their own family, only a few were in the custody of CAS.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355760@0)
-
绝大多数人无论生活如何不完美都还是能活到七八十岁的,我们要感谢谁吗?难道说保证大多数孩子活着就是cas的功劳了吗?
-erichu1970(erichu);
2009-6-20
(#5358654@0)
-
事实上,只能更加证明CAS的问题。 (#5355843@0)
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355908@0)
-
这到底是什么意义?语无伦次?“虽然《刑法》第43款规定家长允许使用适当的体罚来教育孩...但是在加拿大,无论在哪里都不用担心别人会打你,至少在法律上是不允许别人侵犯你的。"
-steve888(Steve曾经曰过);
2009-6-19
(#5355705@0)
-
没办法,那些人就是那样,“self-centered, stubborn, cannot accept criticism. These are bad qualities. Need to be open minded and willing to listen”。 (#5355604@0)
-bdbs(布丁本色);
2009-6-19
(#5355721@0)
-
家长体罚是允许的。但是不能打得过分,比如留伤痕、印记等。外人当然不允许打你了。
-cruiser99(Cruiser);
2009-6-19
(#5355735@0)
-
不留印记着这标准,完全是为了CAS自己方便。Waterboarding一点印记都没有,但是却是酷刑。实际上我知道他想说啥,刑法和CAS的法冲突,CAS就执行符合自己标准的法律。自己方便而已,挑捷径。
-steve888(Steve曾经曰过);
2009-6-19
(#5355758@0)
-
如果为了打孩子,就去研究一些特殊的方法,我就没啥好说的了。大多数家长不会那么用心研究怎么打孩子吧?
-cruiser99(Cruiser);
2009-6-19
(#5355799@0)
-
所以打孩子绝大多数时候是为了教育,不是虐待。因为父母主观上根本没有认为对小孩不好,才会傻到留下证据,才会傻到打了孩子还送学校让老师发现。而刑法也这样认为,体罚有一定的好处。所以一刀切的做法,和“宁可错杀一千,不可放走一个”,没多少区别。
-steve888(Steve曾经曰过);
2009-6-19
(#5355816@0)
-
关键是我们认为不是虐待的,这里人认为是虐待,这是本地标准问题。比如两口子当着孩子面吵架打架,你觉得是虐待孩子吗?这里人认为是!你每天训斥孩子,也是虐待。当着孩子面打麻将,也会被老师看作是一种不当行为。我们意识到过吗?
-cruiser99(Cruiser);
2009-6-19
(#5355839@0)
-
根本不是这样。法律根本没有这样详细。实际上法律的执行可以照顾到不同族裔的背景。连一夫多妻都行。关键是CAS没有制约,完全按照自己的想法办事。华人要做的不是努力顺从国家机器,而是让机器意识要多元文化的不同。
-steve888(Steve曾经曰过);
2009-6-19
(#5355861@0)
-
你说婚姻法还是刑法,刑法还会照顾到你的种族?那不成了种族歧视了?加拿大允许哪个民族打人?既然移民了,首先要了解当地法律、生活风俗,才会避免产生比不要的麻烦。多了解一些即使暂时做不到,也没有坏处吧,咱又不是来革命的。
-cruiser99(Cruiser);
2009-6-19
(#5355879@0)
-
我曾认识你个从东非国家移民来的男人,他根深地固的认定打老婆是对的,他说过和你一样的话:法律应对我们网开一面。照顾我们的民族文化,允许我们这个族裔打老婆。而不是把我照顾到监狱里。
-yusheng(拜月);
2009-6-19
(#5355903@0)
-
Are you sure that "一夫多妻都行"? I love Canada! i.e. I am a husband!
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355986@0)
-
We live in Canada and even Canadian governement promote multi culture but we have to respect certain Canadian values. But are you sure that we can't mahjong in front of kids.I don't play Mahjong myself but I though it was a good game to teach children.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
{79}
(#5355998@0)
-
专家说了,体罚对孩子没有好处,只会让事情更糟糕。你怎么装看不见呢??还抱着你打孩子好的理论,简直不可理喻
-volley(悠悠);
2009-6-19
(#5356338@0)
-
if you know such parents, we should report them to CAS.
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5355845@0)
-
江女士所述除了泛泛而谈,就是前后矛盾,漏洞百出。她说到的常见的需要保护的情形有体罚孩子、性侵、精神虐待、疏于照顾、家长和孩子的沖突等,可是没见他能把此案与其中任何一条联系起来。
-buug(Crouching Tiger);
2009-6-19
(#5357178@0)
-
无论是这篇文章,还是CAS网站,人们都无从知道CAS是如何确保被带走的儿童能够过上更健康、更安全、更好的生活,这是让人遗憾的地方。没有这方面的信息,的确很难对CAS产生信任感
-91109(葡萄紫的大海);
2009-6-19
(#5355823@0)
-
CAS已经同意做后续访问,包括寄养家庭,所以别着急,一次放不下那么多内容。
-cruiser99(Cruiser);
2009-6-19
(#5355851@0)
-
人死不能复生。再狡辩又有何用?
-bigjoe(万里独行);
2009-6-26
(#5377594@0)
-
从一开始,这篇文章是走访CAS而采编的新闻,那么它的可信度就让人大大地降低 - 你想,谁会自我道歉,说自己不好的的方面??正确的做法是报道是第三方的调查和CAS以及这些孩子家庭的对质。
-lier(李耳);
2009-6-19
(#5356285@0)
-
这篇文章压根也没有让对方道歉的意图,这是两个地区的CAS,文章主要是想说明一下CAS的运作,介绍一些常识性的东西。家长也没有对质的意思,我们怎么去对质?其中牵扯很多很多隐私,希望你可以理解。
-cruiser99(Cruiser);
2009-6-19
(#5356396@0)
-
希望后续的报道,可以把大家关心的问题能尽量回答清楚。谁来监管他们,他们内部当然有自己的监管,跟踪,调查程序。可是谁来监管他们?他们权利大的你不能抗争,躲避,那他们如何保证他们可以不出差错?真的寄养家庭都是完全出于爱心,没有补助?寄养家庭,是父母孩子一起的,换句话说,是不是自己生过孩子,有养育指导孩子的经验?能提供给这些受到父母身体上精神上虐待的孩子更健康的环境?我觉得孩子心理伤害是最大的,影响一生的
-liuycc(影子);
2009-6-19
{174}
(#5356508@0)
-
安省有一个寄养家庭的评估标准,审批期很长,这个要随后了解。这个寄养系统本来就是淳朴民风的延续,现在执行起来经济因素会有影响,毕竟不是那种街坊式的关系了
-cruiser99(Cruiser);
2009-6-19
(#5356538@0)
-
真了不起,死亡率可以这么高!!!并且用一个案件来掩盖其他的罪行,辩护守法高超。好样的,为CAS自豪。---江建丽在记者采访时也证实了这一点。
-lier(李耳);
2009-6-19
(#5355872@0)
-
这个死亡率是多少?5%?20%?我是不是MISS了什么?从文章里没看出来。
-kittywhy(kittywhy);
2009-6-19
(#5355997@0)
-
an independent report from Ontario News Room
-hkchan(*);
2009-6-19
(#5356197@0)
-
这个缺德机构就应该取消,拿着纳税人的钱、养着这些吃人饭不干人事儿的东西!
-flycat(零食小天后);
2009-6-19
(#5356758@0)
-
我们要的透明、监管和改进,如果找不到好的措施和手段,名义上的所谓监管我们当然不能信任。如果CAS是一个私人公司,为什么不可以开放市场,让更多私人公司进入?
-erichu1970(erichu);
2009-6-20
(#5358659@0)
-
Agree !
-bigjoe(万里独行);
2009-6-26
(#5377597@0)
-
57%的少年犯与CAS有关,36%被的CAS保护的孩子进少管所。只有24%高中毕业。安省1%孩子被CAS所害 http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/03/07/childrens-aid-070307.html http://www.lawsociety.bc.ca/publications_forms/bulletin/2008/08-07-04_public-forum.html
-patrickholder(blm);
2009-6-20
{264}
(#5358662@0)
-
什么乱七八糟的, 照这样的说法, 99%的死亡和医院有关, 大家不要去医院了.
-natureguy(枫);
2009-6-21
(#5360455@0)
-
谢谢bdbs(布丁本色)的仗义执言。
-bigjoe(万里独行);
2009-6-26
(#5377588@0)